I could be wrong, but I thought that the carry concealed issue was only pre SHTF not post SHTF. I'm not reading every post about it, but if someone is worried about post SHTF concealed carry then they need to rethink their position.

 

Tweto, Thanks for the reply. I was reacting to a couple of seperate threads out here were PPL discuss SHTF carry but keep talking about concealed or a second carry for ace in the hole etc..
My apologies if it seems a littleout of context.

 

I am for carry concealed, but think open carry is an operational security risk in the pre-SHTF world. Post SHTF its a moot point. I think we are going to see that as times get tougher, the lone open carry person will be ambushed by those who want their weapon. Better to keep it concealed and maintain the element of surprise.

 

When



When I was an officer, I carried a back up weapon in case I lost control of my primary weapon. This is more likely to happen to an officer because he is required to wrestle with an offender and is more likely to be disarmed.

As a surviver of a sociatial collapse, I doubt I would be wrestleing with anyone.

 

Oldpagan:

Thats exatcly the mindset the anti gunners have seeded in the US population.
But everywheere you look in corme studies or hostorical refernces.
People are MUCH mor ehestitant to attack an armed man.

Wouldn't you rather dter a firefight than have to spend valable ammo pulling your "surprise"?

Open carry may be just whats needed to be able to cross the street w/o getting into a fight.

Or think about it like this.

If you were a woman walking in central park in the 70's but you have your four 6'4 cousins and brothers with you. Would you ask them to hide and walk a coupe hundred yards behind to be your "suprise" or would you walk right with them?

 

I agree with BlueZ. I do sometimes conceal now but only if my clothes/jacket cover the gun. I am a believer in open carry(with a retention holster). If the bad guys see you with a gun several times they are going to look for easier prey. A friend once said "I'm surprised no one ever tries to steal your motorcycle"(I keep it in a carport). I said everyone sees that motorcycle with an armed rider almost daily, do you think they would risk coming at night to try and steal it? One guy on a forum said he open carries so people can see that he is not a walking ATM machine, a good point I think. More so in a SHTF situation. Bad guys always go to the easy marks first, they are not that dumb. Down here open carry is pretty common.

 

I think it would be helpful to define our terms:

A) SHTF could be getting mugged today, as much as it could be the beginnings of societal collapse, or full flung societal collapse.

B) TEOTWAWKI in contrast refers only to the WORSE case scenario, full fledged collapse.

Clearly in condition (B) you will be carrying a rifle as a main weapon, a pistol, and perhaps shotgun, as a backup, various knives, etc. In such a condition conceal carry is not an issue, although having a back up piece doesn't seem like it could EVER be a bad idea.

However, in condition (A) this is not necessarily the case. Getting mugged could happen at any time, and thus clearly being prepped means carrying concealed, if only because of the societal norms. Also, as we are not weapons free I do believe exposed carry opens you up to various security risks, today, that might not be the case if you are free to shoot people from distance in a WROL situation... However, even if we are talking about the beginning stages of TEOTWAWKI, concealed carry might still be important! If for instance, law enforcement tries to confiscate weapons (e.g. Katrina). Grey man protocol suggests that as the situation gets worse you will progressively move to a more overt weapons posture, but at first, you don't want to stand out, you want to be the grey man, just another refugee among many. It will take time for people to adapt to the new paradigm, starting to carry guns (at all) in the open, and in that time, someone making too much of a show of themselves makes themselves a target of criminals, who will more rapidly see the paradigm shift I think, and again of civil and military authorities.

Finally, you never know when the SHTF will happen. And so conceal carry is important so that in the hours after it does you have a firearm that is both reliable and comfortable enough that you will actually carry it. As instructors often quip the best gun is the one you have when you need it! A Barret .50 BMG is useless if you die on the way home in the first hours of a disaster....

 

I think we are going to see that as times get tougher, the lone open carry person will be ambushed by those who want their weapon.

I think that would be well into a true :shtf: scenario. If bandits are desperate enough to risk one or more of their membership just to loot an individual, it might not matter what you're carrying. In that scenario offer d!p$h!t #1 a can of spam to shoot d!p$h!t #2 in the face... while they're facing off and pondering that, shoot d!p$h!t #3, and then 1 and 2 for good measure. :lolsmash:

 

PreSHTF, I don't want the attention of open carry. If someone wants to rob me or someone else in my presence with a deadly weapon, then I may get to prevent his next robbery by shooting him. (Not that I am hoping for that at all.)

PostSHTF, everybody will be armed and everybody will assume that everybody is armed. Open carry will make sense because it will be more accessible.

I just wish we had open carry in TX to remove the "fear" of your gun being exposed in public.

 

depends on the situation. IMHO, right now when i carry i do so concealed, i show that im paying attention, i carry my keys in my hand when im walking out the store, i keep my head up and i look around. i try to not look like a potential viktem.

in a localized shtf situation, meaning an earth quake or natural disaster, something like that, ill carry concealed, and ill be one of those trying to help others. to me, the main concern in something like that is gonna be first trauma care, i dont see security being a big issues, unless....

unless we are talking about a WROL situation, something like the rodney king riots, and your caught in the middle of it. thats the time when i think a show of force is necesary. thats the time to open carry.

 

I am a certified carry instructor. And I carried concealed for years(and sometimes I still do). Right now in almost all parts of the country concealed is best(often the only way to carry). And I could see after SHTF there could still be times(though few) when concealed might be best. Everyone has to do what they think is best or most comfortable for them and their circumstances.

 

I believe in open carry and concealed carry. Ya never know for sure what you'll encounter so why not cover all of the bases? I also carry a knife. I've had guns misfire and I may not be able to get to my back-up piece. And yes, I've also been known to wear a belt and suspenders.

I've seen occassions when I thought open carry would be like waving a red flag and asking for trouble. There've been a couple of times I took my normally worn, open carried, handgun off and left it at home in order to not inflame a situation. Other times it seemed like a good idea to wear it. Depended upon the situation.

In a SHFT situation it will also depend on the situation although I expect to have a rifle at hand most of the time as well as a handgun (open) and at least one other concealed.

You cannot logically say that there will never be an occassion to use a concealed back-up handgun. Sometimes bad guys do stupid things. In that instance a concealed back-up piece just might save your life.

 

For me it's also an economic issue. I want to plan for TEOTWAWKI, but I also want something I can use now.

 

Oldpagan:

Thats exatcly the mindset the anti gunners have seeded in the US population.
But everywheere you look in corme studies or hostorical refernces.
People are MUCH mor ehestitant to attack an armed man.

Wouldn't you rather dter a firefight than have to spend valable ammo pulling your "surprise"?

Open carry may be just whats needed to be able to cross the street w/o getting into a fight.

Or think about it like this.

If you were a woman walking in central park in the 70's but you have your four 6'4 cousins and brothers with you. Would you ask them to hide and walk a coupe hundred yards behind to be your "suprise" or would you walk right with them?

A couple of points to ponder. Having a weapon visible has already upped the ante in any interaction with a potential suspect / criminal. Many potential confrontations can be diffused without bringing a weapon into play. The idea that walking around with a gun on your hip is going to deter or scare some of the hardcore gang-bangers that have grown up around guns and have been shooting people since they were pre-teens is a philosophy that I don't buy into.

If there are two people on the street, one carrying openly and one carrying concealed that are confronted by an armed robber, who do you think is going to get shot first? The guy carrying the gun in plain sight, or the guy who appears to pose no threat to the bad guys? If the good guy has his gun on his hip, I really don't see how that would be an advantage, as he's certainly not going to beat the bad guy to the draw since the bad guy already has his gun out. IMHO, having a gun visible is gonna get you shot quicker if the bad guy really want's what you have.

If you think walking around with a gun visible makes you a hard target, you're right, it may deter some people. On the other hand, if that was such a tremendous deterrent, why do we have so many Police Officers shot by criminals every year? Most of them were carrying openly, and all of them have a lot more training than the average pistol owner when it comes to dealing with armed criminals.

The best way to win a confrontation is to avoid it if at all possible. Develop and maintain situational awareness until it becomes a habit. Don't think that having a gun strapped to your hip is going to scare everybody or save your tail...there's a good chance it won't.

Post SHTF, Your Mileage May Vary.

 

I am for carry concealed, but think open carry is an operational security risk in the pre-SHTF world. Post SHTF its a moot point. I think we are going to see that as times get tougher, the lone open carry person will be ambushed by those who want their weapon. Better to keep it concealed and maintain the element of surprise.

If operationally security post SHTF is such that carrying a pistol openly is not a problem, I'd rather be carrying a rifle!

 

A couple of points to ponder. Having a weapon visible has already upped the ante in any interaction with a potential suspect / criminal. Many potential confrontations can be diffused without bringing a weapon into play. The idea that walking around with a gun on your hip is going to deter or scare some of the hardcore gang-bangers that have grown up around guns and have been shooting people since they were pre-teens is a philosophy that I don't buy into.

If there are two people on the street, one carrying openly and one carrying concealed that are confronted by an armed robber, who do you think is going to get shot first? The guy carrying the gun in plain sight, or the guy who appears to pose no threat to the bad guys? If the good guy has his gun on his hip, I really don't see how that would be an advantage, as he's certainly not going to beat the bad guy to the draw since the bad guy already has his gun out. IMHO, having a gun visible is gonna get you shot quicker if the bad guy really want's what you have.

If you think walking around with a gun visible makes you a hard target, you're right, it may deter some people. On the other hand, if that was such a tremendous deterrent, why do we have so many Police Officers shot by criminals every year? Most of them were carrying openly, and all of them have a lot more training than the average pistol owner when it comes to dealing with armed criminals.

The best way to win a confrontation is to avoid it if at all possible. Develop and maintain situational awareness until it becomes a habit. Don't think that having a gun strapped to your hip is going to scare everybody or save your tail...there's a good chance it won't.

Post SHTF, Your Mileage May Vary.

Your points are all valid but they do not cover a post SHTF situation.

I admit my example with the woman was pre SHTF but that was only for purpsoes of illustrating a point.

 

The only reason I would carry a second pistol would be for ammo scavenging. I would not carry it concealed but rather in by BOB. In my ideal situation it would probably be a 357 revolver so I can scavenge 38 and 357 as well as my 40 cal ammo. Torn a bit though between the revolver or a 9 mill. Would 9mill or 38&357 be more prevalent? I dont know. It would be a while before I run out of ammo anyway. I certainly wouldnt bother concealing a pistol post shtf. Might hide a more military looking rifle under my pack cover in certain situations like temporarily mixing with a crowd of refugees through a choke point like a bridge but thats all.

 

Concealed carry is still not a bad idea when SHTF. Makes it easier to blend in with the sheeple instead of attracting attention. Well armed guys will more likely just get dropped at distance. Unarmed guys don't appear as threatening. Lower your threat level towards others will increase your chances.

 

I plan on openly carrying a shotgun after it hits the fan. I've been thinking about having a short sword made for me by a friend of a friend. I want it to be about two feet long and I want it to have a leather scabbard and a belt loop to hold it on my belt. There could be times when you're threatened by someone or something and don't want to make a lot of noise.

 

Concealed carry is still not a bad idea when SHTF. Makes it easier to blend in with the sheeple instead of attracting attention. Well armed guys will more likely just get dropped at distance. Unarmed guys don't appear as threatening. Lower your threat level towards others will increase your chances.

I guess it depends on what you're doing, where you're going, and what time of day you're outside. If I had a rural property like a small farm I'd go everywhere openly armed. If I go out at night anywhere there's no longer electric lights I'm going openly armed. If I saw someone outside who was openly armed I wouldn't be concerned as long as they're not coming towards my property. Even then I don't know that I could shoot someone just because they had a gun. I think the only time I'd carry a concealed weapon would be if I was going to a stranger's house to knock on their door. Then it would be good to knock and then back off about ten feet straight back from the door.

 

Open carry ALWAYS gives away tactical advantage.
You might consider appearing to be unarmed as baiting an attack but those are people you will need to dispose of anyway if the balloon goes up.

 

After SHTF,the law is in your fist.best be sure it drops in one shot.

I guess it depends on what you're doing, where you're going, and what time of day you're outside. If I had a rural property like a small farm I'd go everywhere openly armed. If I go out at night anywhere there's no longer electric lights I'm going openly armed. If I saw someone outside who was openly armed I wouldn't be concerned as long as they're not coming towards my property. Even then I don't know that I could shoot someone just because they had a gun. I think the only time I'd carry a concealed weapon would be if I was going to a stranger's house to knock on their door. Then it would be good to knock and then back off about ten feet straight back from the door.

How can a guy who has most everything else so screwed up in details be spot on in the hard things?

 

deleted by self

 

Concealed carry is still not a bad idea when SHTF. Makes it easier to blend in with the sheeple instead of attracting attention. Well armed guys will more likely just get dropped at distance. Unarmed guys don't appear as threatening. Lower your threat level towards others will increase your chances.

This! Having to use a weapon means that primary defensive measures have failed. If I were a BG and saw someone strutting around openly armed, I would just pop you at distance unawares If I so choose and strip your dead body of whatever I wanted to keep.

Seems like a lot of people have already decided for themselves what SHTF will be like.

 

Jez and others.
People making apoint to attack specifcally those that are armed is not consistent with human history, human behavior and observed events at previous disasters.

This is the message the liberal anti gun propaganda which has put the thought into peoples brains for years "your gun will make you a target".

And it's simply not borne out by any facts or history