What to do with friends and relatives?

Discussion in 'General Preparedness Discussion' started by Canadian, Dec 14, 2008.

  1. Let them in no matter what the cost.

    71 vote(s)
    30.1%
  2. Let a few of them in and tell the rest to leave.

    26 vote(s)
    11.0%
  3. Give them each some food and tell them to leave.

    4 vote(s)
    1.7%
  4. Lie and say you're all out of supplies.

    6 vote(s)
    2.5%
  5. Demand they bring supplies if they want to stay.

    103 vote(s)
    43.6%
  6. Tell them all to go away.

    23 vote(s)
    9.7%
  7. Pack the car and leave the house in their care.

    3 vote(s)
    1.3%
  1. Canadian

    Canadian Well-Known Member

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    My wife and I have been gathering a forty day supply of good to survive any possible disaster. We have survived the 2003 blackout and a major snowstorm in 1999. Our relatives had their part of town blown up when a fuel refinery exploded in 2008.

    In spite of all members of the family having lived though or had close calls with disasters they refuse to prepare. When we mentioned our survival horde they thought we were crazy. When we mentioned we would be adding guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition to our horde they were horrified.

    These are people who eat out for every meal, can't cook, can't fix anything, live on credit cards and debit cards, and are unprepared for simple situations in daily life.

    I know for a fact that if there is a food shortage or rioting THEY WILL show up at our door asking to come in.

    We only have enough food and supplies for two people. We built in a cushion so we could stretch it to four as our house can sleep four in relative comfort. However, if they all showed up the food would be gone in a matter of days.

    I don't get along with many of them and they don't even like each other most of the time. Being barricaded in my own home with these people for weeks might be more than I can stand.

    I've told them I'm willing to build a second "horde" at one of their houses if everyone in the family is willing to pay for a part of the supplies. Nobody wanted to chip in.

    What do I do when they show up pounding on the door?
     
  2. jebrown

    jebrown jebrown

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    People say that there is no way that they could turn some one away in the event of a disaster or whatever.
    If theser same people showed up at your door and wanted to be ivited for dinner every day day in or day out you would turn them away after a short time. If they came to your house and walked in and took your food you would call the police and have them arrested for stealing.
    People who will show up uninvited or unprepared are doing the same thing. Stealing from you.
    Every one has been advised to prepare it is covered to one extent or another in the media for amy years. If they refuse to accept responsibilty for their own actions why should you do it for them. This is the reson so many don't prepare. They are so use to someone else providing for them. They eat out and can't cook, someone else is taking care of them. Paying for the meal doesn't change the fact that they are not self-sufficient. They are followers and not leaders they constantly have some one else to look after them for what ever reason.
    I have provisions for my family and that is all. I have made it plain to the four others in my family that no one else under any circumstances are welcome.
    We have two grandsons that live out of town ages four years and 5 years they would be welcome but not thier mother or stepfather. They have been advised but don't care to plan, the boys don't have a choice.
    I will not risk denying my family to provide for idiots too stupid to prepare. I will turn them away without any guilt at all. I know this may sound harsh to some of you but think of how you would feel sitting there watching your family doing without do to lazy individuals who just want to mooch.
    I have offered to include others but no one wants to contribute any money to by supplies or provide food and supplies.
     

  3. JeepHammer

    JeepHammer Well-Known Member

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    It's family, you CAN NOT turn them away!

    I took in my neighbors and people from the neighborhood I didn't even know during the floods this spring...

    Either we ALL make it, or it's not worth living with myself if we don't...
     
  4. Canadian

    Canadian Well-Known Member

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    It's hard to imagine the moment of actually telling them they are not welcome. I think the hardest part of survival has nothing to do with getting prepared. It has to do with the emotional issues that come up. Thanks for your opinion.
     
  5. Canadian

    Canadian Well-Known Member

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    Jeep - That's exactly what my wife would say. That's what makes this so difficult. I'm pretty well prepared in terms of supplies. It's the complicated social bits that make things difficult. I'd love to help everyone but if I fed all the families in my complex I'd be out of food in one evening. Then my wife and I will be left with empty stomachs and a pile of equipment and ammunition. I wonder how long it would take before we went pounding on doors looking for food.
     
  6. AgentFlounder

    AgentFlounder fan of analysis

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    For me the cost of turning people away is too high. There's no chance in the world we'd turn away our own family-- regardless of how prepared they are. I'd want to help as many as I could while being reasonable and having enough for our own basic needs.
     
  7. Canadian

    Canadian Well-Known Member

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    Flounder - Thanks for your take on things. By the way you taste great cooked in butter.
     
  8. dilligaf

    dilligaf Well-Known Member

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    having run a way station for folks for several years and not turning any one away in those years we have had to change ur policies about people coming and staying. In order for them to come for anything over a three days stay , one must bring their food and supplies enough to take care of them and who ever else they bring along. If it looks like it is a long term thing they must bring atleast 6 months worth of supplies.

    Our reasoning is ... we grow about 90% of our own food supplies. We have enough growing for ourselves and one or two others at all times. We have gardens enough to raise what we eat, store and sell or barter away for money. By bringing extras to the table it means our resources are depleted. It will take us about 6 months in order to beging harvesting enough products in order to sustain how ever many extra mouths that are here. We can not afford this in this type of economy.

    Few people will put the effort that you put into gardens/ animals etc if they are not theres. Mothers with small children attached to there hips are not going to pull the weight of themself and the kiddies. If a man is with him this all falls upon the man. More often than not it still is not enough to sustain that extra family. Even simple things such as milk. We raise just enough goats for ourselves and our needs with the goats . An entire extra family changes that entirely. Are you willing to take that on? We have chickens that prduce about what we eat in eggs . An entire extra family changes those needs and we cant pull an extra five chickens out of a magic hat over night. This is for all animals produce etc.

    Then think about where you are going to stick these entire families. Do you have the facilities to ramp up everything you will need to ramp up... Think bout canning supplies, food storage, garden space, extra barn and critter space. Do you have a means to put these folks up in a warm place or is a whole new domicilie going to need to be built.

    It sounds harsh but folks need to look at things realistically here. Is sounds great to think that we can take everyone in unconditionally(we have done it) but the truth is in order to do this, more often than not it is you and yours that will be the ones having to sacrifice and give up what you have worked for in the end to have it all come collapsing down around you because you didnt have the infrastructure and the means to sustain he people you took in for long term.
     
  9. AgentFlounder

    AgentFlounder fan of analysis

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    LOL yummy! :D

    Michael
     
  10. Canadian

    Canadian Well-Known Member

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    dilligaf - We live in one of the largest cities in North America in the downtown area. We have no way of growing any food. Everything has to be stored and we have very limited storage space.

    We also have very little room to fit people in. If the whole family showed up we'd literally be on top of each other. It must be stressful when people are pushing your supply situation to the breaking point.

    Thanks for your input.
     
  11. dilligaf

    dilligaf Well-Known Member

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    have you posed this exact thing to your wife then lol... As i said it is a luvly idea to think we can take everyone in need in but reality has to be the key thing here.. and for many looking at things realistically is difficult when it comes to family. But it could very well mean your own survival or not in a bad situation...

    If folks are knocking on your door then one must assume they are having major finanical issues. Are you in the financial position to absorb all the costs that would be associated with taking extras in long term?

    Of course we come from the self sufficiency mind set. Eating all meals out and not cooking or growing our own food is totally foreign to us and for these same reasons we dont have much contact with most of our families.

    One lil suggestion to ya though ;)... increase that amount of food supply you have set back... 40 days isnt much ... Even if its just beans n rice n simple foods , i really suggest it if you can ...
     
  12. endurance

    endurance Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I consider a six month to one year supply minimal, but obviously you're already better off than 90% of Americans when it comes to preps. While I've felt well prepared for myself and my GF for a while now, lately I've been stashing more food just for the neighbors. While I know I can't look after all their food needs, I would love to be able to contribute with soups or stews to help them get by. If you belong to Costco, 25# of rice is $10-11 right now. That's roughly 40k calories for the cost of a couple lattes. While I think people have a responsibility to look after themselves, if they can't or won't, you have to do the best you can. We are our brother's keeper. Canned beef is less than $3.50 a pound and is great for adding some heartiness to stews if you can't provide local wild game. Dried mashed potatoes are good by themselves, but they can also be used to thicken a stew and add calories.

    I'd say store the extra food at your place, but insist on cooking at one of their places, even if it's a logistical headache. Offer to bring over dinner every night in exchange for something that you might need, like gas, batteries, blankets, or some labor-intensive task. Otherwise, you're setting yourself up to get taken advantage of in the future even more.
     
  13. Canadian

    Canadian Well-Known Member

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    The amount stored has more to do with lack of space than anything else. Many people in our city live in 300 - 400 sq ft condos. We're lucky to have about 800 sq ft. Once you put furniture in there it's pretty full.

    We also live literally across the street from a supermarket. If things start to get bad we can walk across the street and bump up our food supply and store the food all over the house. For now we'd like the house to look like a house. We've kept our food choices simple yet tasty.

    It seems like most people who post here live in the country and have space, land, barns, sheds, cellars, etc. They also seem to live fairly far away from family and other people in general. I might be facing "big city issues" when it comes to being prepared.

    Thanks for your input. Yeah the wife and I talk about all kinds of things these days. Things we'd thought we would never talk about. It's all about the economy.
     
  14. Canadian

    Canadian Well-Known Member

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    endurance - I recently got a membership at COSTCO so I could buy and store things by the case. We have lots of tools, lights, batteries and equipment and we'll soon have plenty of guns and ammo. Food however takes up a lot of space. I never though about how much food an average person consumes in a day. We filled up an entire shelving unit with food. "Wow that's only a month?" It was a shock to the system. People consume a lot of food.
     
  15. endurance

    endurance Well-Known Member

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    Yep, we're only slightly better than my GF's hayburner horses. I figure a year's worth of food takes up around 40sq.ft. from floor to ceiling and that's without getting fancy. With your small square footage, I understand the constraints. My only advice would be to consider a cache at either a climate controlled storage locker or buried somewhere out in the sticks, but within biking distance (I know boston is one of the least bike-friendly cities in the US now, but if things get really bad, folks won't be able to buy gas, so there will be a lot fewer cars on the road).

    I'd temper your guns and ammo collection with the number of firefights you think you can win if you're really lucky. The best gunfight is the one you avoid entirely.
     
  16. Magus

    Magus Scavenger deluxe

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    I have 4 relatives I care about,the rest can talk to the shotgun. :D
     
  17. charleybundrum

    charleybundrum Guest

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    Hmm...

    Probably let them in for the most part I reckon. Situations can very, duration, severity, available additional support etc.. I like to think of ways to keep them busy while contributing. I would like to hear other folks ideas on this.

    Operating the manual grain mill
    cleaning
    counting and inspecting ammo
    telling/reading stories
    tending the garden
    keeping watch
    assigning them to help neighbors
    Operating the bicycle powered generator
    counting and rolling pennies

    Charley
     
  18. Canadian

    Canadian Well-Known Member

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    endurnace - The gun thing was a big discussion with my wife. At first she was against it. Then as we started to stockpile supplies and it started to add up she started to change her mind. We live in a town home in a gated community. The other people in the community are packed in all around us. If there's a shortage of anything people will start to notice.

    They might notice that our place is always lit, always warm, always has the smell of food coming from it at meal times. We're pretty sure people will come by at first and ask for things like food, batteries, medical supplies, clean drinking water, fuel. After a while if things get real bad they might not ask.

    I never fired a gun until a few months ago. I took my wife and she gave it a try. She's fine shooting at paper but she's convinced that she could never shoot a person. I'm not sure I could do it even if someone was trying to break my door down.

    I live next door to these people. My wife and I both realize that the most likely person to break in to loot us isn't some faceless criminal - it will be someone who lives across the street from us. Not a bad person but someone who has run out of supplies first. They will probably have a family to feed. They don't hate us they just want to eat. A week on an empty stomach can drive people crazy.

    We'd rather not have any guns. We never even fired one until a few months ago. However, we can't see any other way around it. We look at the L.A. riots, New Orleans, the New York City blackout and see that the police can't protect you. Those people looted the stores and homes in their own area. How else can we protect ourselves?

    We figured 40 days of food requires 40 days of ammunition to protect it and some guns to shoot with. We don't want to hurt anyone. With the way the economy is going we know we have to be prepared. The vast majority of people in our city have no experience with guns. With any luck we'll be the only people in our area who have any.
     
  19. Canadian

    Canadian Well-Known Member

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    charley - Good suggestions. However my situation is a little different.

    Grain mill? We opted to go with a large supply or rice and pasta instead. Cleaning? It's a small place so that would take about an hour.

    Counting and inspecting ammo? Due to gun laws around here it has to be locked in a safe in a container. It'll be pre counted and sit in the safe until it is needed.

    Telling stories? Our family members only have one set of stories that they tell over and over again. "Did I tell you about the time when..." Yes grandpa only nine million times! Tend the garden? No garden or lawn to speak of.

    Keeping watch. That's one that applies.

    Helping the neighbors is a tough one. In my part of the city the population is about 85% Korean / Other Asian 10% Iranian 4% white and 1% other. Since my family only speak english we can't communicate with the neighbors. I've been here for years and I only get as far as hello.

    Bike generator! Awesome!

    Pennies - How about playing solitaire until dawn with a deck of fifty one.

    It's amazing how much of our time is dedicated to electronics. I'm sure my extended family would go bonkers without their ipod, tv, computer, blackberry, cell phone, ps3 etc.

    I'm tired of standing watch... "Well there's always the power bike..."

    Thanks Charley - If I we're holed up at your place I bet we'd have an awesome game of poker.

    Peace!
     
  20. Canadian

    Canadian Well-Known Member

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    magus - Damn you must dislike your in-laws. Mine are pretty bad. I might tell them to talk "to the hand." The shotgun however would be going a bit far for me.