What % of the pop turn into killers in a flat out SHTF world?

Discussion in 'General Preparedness Discussion' started by keepitlow, Sep 22, 2010.

  1. keepitlow

    keepitlow Well-Known Member

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    Steal food, water whatever and kill others to get the goods. What % of the pop turn into killers in a flat out SHTF world?

    I put it at 10%

    Am I too low?

    If so, what is the number?

    What do you base it on?

    Thanks
     
  2. ZoomZoom

    ZoomZoom Rookie Prepper

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    In general terms, I believe it'll be based on the "haves" and the "have not's".
    Most of those that have will defend it, especially when threatened. If not threatened, bartering or communal efforts could occur to the benefit to both parties.

    Then there's those that don't have. Some will fight and kill to get what they need, others will beg.

    There's a 3rd group of those that will try to gain power from the chaos and control the flow of goods. These will have attained their power most likely by killing (and probably make up a good percentage of those that will start killing quickly after SHTF).

    IMHO, it appears to be a classic example of Sheep, Sheepdogs and Wolves. (A google search of that term gives lots of references if you're not familiar with it). Let me color coat it.
    Sheepdog
    Sheep
    Wolves

    As for percentages, that's hard to tell. It'll be a lot different in urban areas as opposed to rural. The level of SHTF will also make a difference. Climate? Is there power? Do vehicles run? Is the air and/or water toxic? Lots of variables.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2010

  3. Tirediron

    Tirediron RockyMountainCanadian

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    some prolly at least 10% would kill just cause they could, and prolly another 10% would kill for very little, another 20% might finaly get desparate and kill and of that group the some would continue to kill for "sport" :gaah: or maybe humans are better than that and no body will get killed:scratch
     
  4. kyfarmer

    kyfarmer Well-Known Member

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    And there will be those that will be afraid things could go back to normal quickly and think the law might come a knocking, i think some with badges will be the worst. Use their status to take advantage of folks. If it gos to crap the last thing i would do is lay down arms or surender them to the so called law. They out right stole folks only way to protect their families during katrina, i,d say around 20% in an all out FUBAR. Better than that LOL! sorry but a large section of humans will turn into animals or what they really were in the first place, will show. Faith not in the human race, nope not a bit.
     
  5. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

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    I'd have to go with bczoom on this & say that it really depends on what you mean by 'killers'... in the right (wrong?) situation we're almost all killers for one reason or another
     
  6. Clarice

    Clarice Well-Known Member

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    Don't under estimate the desire to survive. I know without a doubt I would defend me and mine by whatever means necessary, including shoot to kill, and I am a very quiet and generous person. I fear the younger generation that won't be denied. Their give it to me now attitude will lead to grief.
     
  7. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

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    HEY! :eek: We're not ALL like that! :gaah: :surrender: :D
     
  8. Clarice

    Clarice Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Blob, I should rephrase and say some of the younger generation has the "I won't be denied attitude"
     
  9. gypsysue

    gypsysue The wanderer

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    And some of us old people who have been prepping for years, might be considered "expendable" by some, if nothing else just so those who didn't prepare could justify taking.

    Despite the number of people who think they could never kill another, I think when their backs are against the wall or their loved ones are threatened, or just the desperation of survival, could make anyone a killer.

    It's a different kind of "killer" from peacetime murderers. Don't feel like you're a bad person if you believe you could or would kill to survive or to protect your own.

    I would do so, and I'm not a bad person.
     
  10. Tirediron

    Tirediron RockyMountainCanadian

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    Every time I try to group people , I learn that it doesn't work ,but the longer someone (percentage of life experience) lives in an instant world the more they expect it. My teen age son has researched more about self sufficiency than most , and he just wants to know the simple ways , he is pretty sure that he will get a team of horses to feed the cattle for instance. But the kids he went to school with would rather discuss the latest tech gizmo and feel that society will take care of them.
    Back to the origonal question, a lot of people would kill an attacker to defend their loved ones and rightly so , but that is a whole different thing than killing to raise their social position
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2010
  11. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

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    I'm NO quitter, but if a post-apocalyptic 'society' developed like that, I'm not so sure I would want to be a part of it, even if it did have x-box ;) :p
     
  12. ZoomZoom

    ZoomZoom Rookie Prepper

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    That society exists today. If someone attacked me or mine, I wouldn't see a choice but to drop him/them.
     
  13. HozayBuck

    HozayBuck Well-Known Member

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    I think it will be a lot higher percentage then most think... reason.

    LA alone is said by LEO's to hold 35,000 gang members, yes a lot are in the 12 to 15 yo bracket..they will kill you just as dead as a 40 yo MS 13 ganger...

    The following may appear racist to some of you but...I'm not a racist, I'm a realist... look at the LA riots... and they got away with it... untold thousands running thru the streets burning and looting for days...

    I'm sorry but really when was the last time a cop shot a white felon and the whites burned their own hood??? it's don't even take a shooting for there to be a riot... In Oakland last year I think it was , a Black fugitive shot and killed 4 police officers.. when the cops finely killed him the Blacks in Oakland were getting in front of the cameras and screaming that the cops didn't need to kill him coz he was a good man... uh huh...

    Damned if I don't sound like a racist... but those things did happen and will again..

    IF LA has 35,000 bangers how many does Houston, Dallas, FT Worth ... ....How many does "Texas" have... add up all the big cities.. and folks these are people you don't want to know!! and they are armed!

    Now.. how about the Outlaw bikers?? probably no more then 10 to 15 thousand nation wide... but they are already outlaws..and armed...

    I'd say that 10 % of the population not included in the above figures would love to see a break down.. they are already punks, dopers, petty thieves ,

    Now add in another 15 % who will say screw it it's dog eat dog and use that to explain their actions...But.. they won't last long..."too" long? yes but they will die off fast...

    Women and girls of all ages will be instant targets... don't believe that? if you have a teen age daughter take her to the mall and walk 25 yards behind her and watch ...even the nicest clean cut men of all ages will look at her and most will turn to watch her walking away! How do I know? because I do it too! it's the male beast... am I going to act on it? hell no... but how many will?... so....

    25 %...35 %?... think 50 % and you will be closer.. civilization is held together by a thin thread... think about your neighborhood .. how many are slobs? never clean their yards? toss beer cans all over the place and play their music way too loud while in their garage... who's kids run wild?.... think this dudes going to start going to church come SHTF? , going to clean up his act?...

    I'm a realist...and a pessimist... Murphy lives in my life... and half the time he's swinging from my "Nad's" screaming YEHAAAAAAAAA.... I have faith in my AK and my closest friends ... there it is... or as we grunts used to say..."It is what it is"..

    I would like to believe I'm wrong..but I'm not..
     
  14. bradthebard

    bradthebard I've run a shovel b'fore

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    Some good thoughts here. I'll add some of my own perspective to it.

    The chances of someone killing randomly will increase exponentially as you move into urban areas. Two reasons for this.
    First off there will be a much greater likelyhood of mob mentality. Get a relatively sane person in the middle of a big mob of crazies and the crazy starts rubbing off. A pack of humans will do things that individuals would never do.

    Secondly you have a situation where transportation and logistics will be disrupted. That means within a matter of days the food supply will be completely gone in urban areas. Mobs are bad. Real hungry mobs suck.

    SHTF, the best bet for the first month or two would be to bug out, hunker down and be as invisible as you can. For all intents and purposes, 100% of the population is a killer and you have to sleep sometime.
     
  15. carlnet

    carlnet carl.net

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    I for one do not have a teenage daughter but would be interested in trying your experiment... Do you have one for loan... Very Big Grin.

    On a serious note first world countries have not prepared women for SHTF. Women in general are very well protected from predation and it has made them assume that is the way it always was and will be. Then we have TV shows where on woman kicks a bunch of large men's butts and women start to think this is the way it is. Simple equation, pour testosterone into the system and you get heaver bone mass and larger muscles. Fair or not the non testosterone enhanced animal will lose.

    For this very reason I have worked hard to make sure my wife shoots very well and is equipped with a weapon that is designed to work with her. As such I have very little fear of someone attacking her but I do fear for her attacker...

    As for what percentage of people will turn into killers? The answer is none. All people are already killers and just have not had the correct environment to express that side of their programming.
     
  16. Tirediron

    Tirediron RockyMountainCanadian

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    carlnet , if you think a male is more dangerous , try threatening a females offspring , whole different animal then
     
  17. carlnet

    carlnet carl.net

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    This has nothing to do with intent. It has to do with the abilities inherent in the animal. Go to any third world country and walk around unescorted as a female and see what happens.
     
  18. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

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    I think it's more the proclivity that he's talking about, rather than the capability... :dunno:
     
  19. HozayBuck

    HozayBuck Well-Known Member

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    No I don't have one...thank god..all my friends daughters are now in that 13 to 16 bracket... I got the Mall thing from 2 of them's dad, we were sitting in a mall admiring the "view" and he was enjoying it too when he said ya kno...all these hotties are about 15... I about fell off the bench, he was right!! I never looked at their faces just the rest.. they weren't built like that when I was 15 that's for damn sure or else they were but didn't have it on display!

    As for arming the wives and GF's I've found I can teach them to shoot and even make them really think about doing it...but I've yet to get but one to be truly aware of the world around them...

    Even my male friends know better then to place me with my back to the door and yet the ladies give me crap for it... they just don't "look" or "see"... and how do you teach them ? and teenagers are the worlds worse.. if they had to describe a felon to the police they might know what kind of cell phone he had or what kind of jeans he wore but that's it...

    So..I always make sure I'm aware and work to teach them to be...I did have some results with one GF .. she pointed out to me 3 guys who were packing.. under their jackets... I said Good Job!! she said who are they and I said "Feds" she asked how I knew...I said...new jeans , new work shirts with shelf creases and new walking boots... and they were!! she worked for Fed X and saw them the next day at the local FBI office... they were trying to fit in with the locals ...poor guys... but a few days later they caught a very wanted bad guy who was here in the Helena area...

    So...tell them to be aware, look at who's moving around them and never sit with their back to the door unless your with them..and when possible sit near the exit... and in the time it takes to scream they can move a good 20 feet! on the sitting note..I always pick where "I" want to set, not where the hostess wants me to be... and they always smile and say surly!!

    Just a few hints.. things I've learned from many years of being a LEO and an OUTLAW...lol
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2010
  20. Tennessepreppers

    Tennessepreppers Member

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    In my opinion everyone who cares and prepares now will be capable or better be so if ur not you need to work on that now. That's a necessary skill or ability. It's you or them and I will try and make sure its not me.