What If?

Discussion in 'International Current News & Events' started by greaseman, Feb 26, 2010.

  1. greaseman

    greaseman Well-Known Member

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    I'm interested to hear some thoughts on a subject that I've been hearing about some recently. These are all hypothetical situations.

    If our economy goes totally bust, and the banks close for who knows how long, and other economic calamities follow right in a row, will these events basically make the IRS a dead man walking?? With economic chaos in full swing, and no real way to access one's money, logic would seem to dicatae that the IRS would be done with. The only possible future for tax collections it would seem, might be some kind of national sales tax. But by that time, I think commerce will have reverted back to the old days of barter, and hard assets used for money. Posibily trading work for goods and so forth. Woe to the milliions who have no marketable skill, no food saved up, no way to grow food. These people are truly screwed. Those will be the ones that first take the train ride to the FEMA camps. OH, I forgot--they don't exist!

    Another train of thought. If inflation gets into high gear, and unemployment hits un -thought of levels, and people's benefits run dry, will voluntary compliance basically end for tax payers. If a family has no income, I mean, what's the point of filing anyway??

    I think the anti-tax sentiment is as high as the anti-government sentiment. People aren't too happy with anything our government is doing right now. I believe critical mass will be reached sooner or later, and even some of the brain dead Osama cool-aid drinkers will wake up and smell the rotten stench of poverty that the majority of the middle class has sunk into.

    Are we seeing the end of voluntary compliance with income tax collection in our country?? I believe people are looking for an excuse to quit paying, and it won't take much for the system to breakdown.
     
  2. pdx210

    pdx210 Well-Known Member

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    flat tax will never happen they don't want the masses to realize over 50% of their income goes to all manor of taxes, permits,fees, surcharges, licenses, user fees

    regardless of what happens commerce will still exist and so will taxes
     

  3. UncleJoe

    UncleJoe Well-Known Member

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    In the situation you describe, I'd be willing to bet that the IRS will will find a way to continue to rape the masses. My question would be, when people can no longer afford to eat, or lose their house to the taxman, and stop filing, what would they do about it? As they start to confiscate assets and put people on the street, there would be a revolt. There aren't enough jails to hold the entire population should we decide we've had enough.

    I believe bartering already has a foot in the door.

    Los Angeles Co., California: Barter Online at - SwapGiant is a relatively new site that deals exclusively with bartering. It is based in CA but is slowly spreading across the country.

    craigslist classifieds: jobs, housing, personals, for sale, services, community, events, forums has a section devoted to bartering and it is much larger than it was when I first discovered it a few years ago.

    There is only so much that can be taken from someone. Once that line is crossed, things could get ugly real quick.
     
  4. HozayBuck

    HozayBuck Well-Known Member

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    I have the thought that one day "they" will enact a flat tax, with no filing, no deductions, no refunds, reason being that by so doing they can just keep all the money taken in, they can shut down the IRS to a degree, say about 75 % of those jobs would go away, that money saved would also be sucked up never to be seen again, knowing most people would dance in the streets to see the IRS closed down. Big business would be given some breaks to keep job creation in line with growth but not necessarily big paying jobs, your employer would hold out the tax like now except you won't get it back and you can't change the amount by claiming more dependents.

    Some might say this wouldn't happen or work, but why not?, if "The Man" said ok, everybody pays a flat 10%, people would be ecstatic !! more dancing in the streets!! then using the boiling frog method they could slowly raise the tax rate until it was ...oh say 50 %, and what can you do about it? not a damn thing, keep working, keep trudging on, if you quit your job you starve.

    Just a thought to stimulate conversation, and to point out the vast need to have your bit of dirt to grow your own food because you will need it after losing half your pay to the Gov so they can give it to all those non working Obama supporters ...

    We have a real need to become as self sufficient as possible because the real SHTF just might be from our own Government deciding we need to be controlled from cradle to grave which could come earlier when they decide you've become a feeder and not a producer..

    What do most people work for now? Most???...A bigger home then they really need, a greener lawn that they pay Jose to keep looking good, bigger, faster, smarter cars, bigger TV sets, credit cards, cloths to look more effluent then they really are. I see couples with no kids or one kid living in 3500 SQ ft homes, why? appearances... I've been there done that, I've built 2 homes just for myself and a wife, big nice places, over done, truly "Monuments" to myself and my abilities , lost my *** on both of them when I sold them, no more, never again.. my next place is going to be a 16x20 cabin in the piney woods of E TX, where I can grow food most of the year and the trees are so thick nobody even knows your there.. kinda like Tune out, turn off, dropped out...of sight as much as possible.

    Sorry, too heavy this early in the day and only one cuppa....:soapbox1:

    BUT!! then again...what the hell do I know?.....:beercheer:
     
  5. greaseman

    greaseman Well-Known Member

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    I think if things get chaotic enough, that even a flat tax would be difficult to enforce. Perhaps just a universal sales tax might be the easiest to collect. But , if things have gone to Mad Max level, no one wouldm even get a thought about paying. But you could be that one of the first things the Feds would try to do, is get taxes from you. I still think there would be a period of total chaos, as the Feds try to figure out the bestway to collect.

    Another thing to consider. If Social Security and other entitlements get disrupted, would that be the straw that breaks the camel's back?? Why would anyone pay anything if you didn't receive the benefits you paid for all your working carrer?? I could easily see banks staying closed for a long period of time, as the government tried to figure out how to tell people that they couldn't have their money. If they did get any, it would be small ammounts at a time, and on a schedule that the government decides.

    I kind of got off topic concerning the IRS, but it's all connected together with the banks anyway. Seems like the banks failing could be the opportunity for the IRS to institute a RFID chip program to guarantee tax collection. No chip, no social security payment. Might seem far fetched now, but nothing surprises me concerning what our government might come up with. Some type of electronic collections compliance method is suredily coming, more advanced than what we have now. The IRS wants their pound of flesh. But after Americans go hungry from months of economic chaos, they may not have a pound of flesh to give.
     
  6. HozayBuck

    HozayBuck Well-Known Member

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    Greaseman, you have a very valid point, stop the welfare checks, SS , DAV and you have war in the streets, I'm a DAV and on SS, if my checks stop then America as we know it will be gone, close the banks and it's even worse...

    It would be easy to do, a PD due to a "National Emergency" and in a week the city's will be a smoldering ruin... I have little faith in our fellow mankind, or maybe I have faith ..:peep:
     
  7. HarleyRider

    HarleyRider Comic Relief Member

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    Be prepared for someone to bomb both Congress and the Senate. With all of the pay cuts, tax increases, loss of benefits, loss of social security payments, etc. due to stupid laws passed by morons that are exempt from their own laws some poor American, who has lost everything, will probably decide to do the above thinking that when he is caught he will at least get three meals a day and a roof over his head in prison. He probably doesn't have that now and has absolutely nothing to lose. So sad.

    This said, we should all downsize and prepare for the worst, because the worst appears to be on the horizon.
     
  8. HarleyRider

    HarleyRider Comic Relief Member

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    From MSM.com "A severed gas line at the home of a Democratic lawmaker's brother is being investigated as a possible act of retaliation for the representative's vote in favor of health care reform, the Charlottesville Daily Progress reported Wednesday.". I guess my last post wasn't too far off. I wish to God it was. :cry:
     
  9. robert

    robert Member

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    I don't think we will go TU because japan and China won't let it happen. They own to much of us