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by Mike Vanderboegh

A friend of mine recently forwarded me a question a friend of his had posed: "If/when our Federal Government comes to pilfer, pillage, plunder our property and destroy our lives, what good can a handgun do against an army with advanced weaponry, tanks, missiles, planes, or whatever else they might have at their disposal to achieve their nefarious goals? (I'm not being facetious: I accept the possibility that what happened in Germany, or similar, could happen here; I'm just not sure that the potential good from an armed citizenry in such a situation outweighs the day-to-day problems caused by masses of idiots who own guns.)" If I may, I'd like to try to answer that question. I certainly do not think the writer facetious for asking it. The subject is a serious one that I have given much research and considerable thought to. I believe that upon the answer to this question depends the future of our Constitutional republic, our liberty and perhaps our lives. My friend Aaron Zelman, one of the founders of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, once told me:

"If every Jewish and anti-nazi family in Germany had owned a Mauser rifle and twenty rounds of ammunition AND THE WILL TO USE IT (emphasis supplied, MV), Adolf Hitler would be a little-known footnote to the history of the Weimar Republic."

Note well that phrase: "and the will to use it," for the simply-stated question, "What good can a handgun do against an army?", is in fact a complex one and must be answered at length and carefully. It is a military question. It is also a political question. But above all it is a moral question which strikes to the heart of what makes men free, and what makes them slaves. First, let's answer the military question. Most military questions have both a strategic and a tactical component. Let's consider the tactical.

read the rest here: What Good Can a Handgun Do Against an Army.....? | Bangicus
 

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"...So finally we are faced with, we must return to, the moral component of the question: 'What good can a handgun do against an army?' The answer is 'Nothing,' or 'Everything.' The outcome depends upon the mind and heart and soul of the man or woman who holds it...."

A good read! :2thumb:
 

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No matter what it does come down to the drive and will to be free, ya 100% on that. What i see a lot of now is, it will not make any difference anyway. Sadly i see a lot of folk who will lay down like a kicked dog. History may well repeat itself i hope not. :scratch
 

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Great read! That little liberty gun remindes me of the ones we stealthly made in highschool shop class when the teacher wasn't looking. Perhaps this is why we don't offer shop in our school system any more.:scratch
 

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... Sadly i see a lot of folk who will lay down like a kicked dog. History may well repeat itself i hope not. :scratch
Sad but probably true. :( There will be those who lay down and rollover :surrender: BUT there will be those who won't submit. If such a thing ever came to pass, it could very well be the start of Civil War II.

Tim
 

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or the second American revolution
 

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what good is a handgun against an Army?

Now this is a good one to chew on for awhile:

France; 1942/43 and the French resistance....If my mind is still clear, the united states dropped thousands of single shot pistols called the "Liberator"..
they had 2, or 3 .45 caliber pistol rounds in them....Now think about this, for a moment....How bold those resistance fighters were? they had this little pistol that was good to about 3 ft.... they would have to con convincingly a Nazi soldier that the resistance fighters daughter was for sale and to get a single soldier to follow him....He shot him at close range and hopefully, got a better weapon to fight with...It was suicidal....

Now, lets apply it today and imagine being one of those terrorist, overseas in Afghanistan....He has been fighting for centuries, since Gingus-kan ....Not even Russia could overthrow this nation....We have the best technology over there currently and it is still a tuff country to tame....

The Muggi fighter is using his land, deceitfulness, ruthlessness and hunting abilities that he learned centuries ago....It is not going to be over soon....these guys are willing to use themselves as BAIT against our best snipers/soldiers....It used to be that they had to prove the kill, after the shot, but we learned the hard way, that the individual that was eliminated was just the bait and the sniper team was then ambushed~!....They think like wolfs, they will even betray themselves and fight over the spoils of war....they are ruthless, as an enemy~!....

Moral of the story from Iraq....When outgunned and out manned and hand to hand combat is evident/overrun, keep one hand grenade in your hand at your chest as you draw your battle knife....That way you will not be taken prisoner and quartered (cut-up alive) by the enemy....The pin is already pulled and as you go down for the count, you take as many of them as you can....("quoted from a purple heart medic, that just came back from tours in Iraq and Afghanistan" with brain trauma from IED)

Same applies here in this situation....Either your a warrior and plan your death as Samuari did on the battlefield, or you better have an escape plan, or become a prisoner under the best case senerio....

My opinion, is to fight like a warrior and die a free man, instead of a prisoner/slave.....
 

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I see our nation as having multiple differences when compared to others.

First and foremost we have a tradition, for lack of a better word, of rebelliousness and distrust of our government that goes back for centuries. Most European countries have or had a feudal mindset, with a strong deference given to authority.

We have a corps of veterans, which although shrinking, is still real. One of my many hobbies over the year has been playing paintball. It never ceases to surprise me when I get buddied up with another veteran (typically Army or Marines) and we almost naturally fall into a groove of move and cover. If others will listen to those who have served, and have a proper mindset, it can help. We can likely also count on elements of the military NOT being willing to fight their own.

Our government would presumably wish to subjugate without destroying infrastructure and manpower which they need. This means not using carpet bombing, massive amounts of armor and artillery. It wouldn't be like the Civil War, in which the land and buildings of Confederacy wasn't so necessary to the North, and allowed Sherman to march to the sea.

Just a few thoughts off of the top of my head as I drink coffee, which means they are subject to revision as caffeine enters my system and wakes me up.
 

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Doc - Have you read Civl War Two: The Coming Breakup of America, by Thomas W. Chittum? I so, what are your thoughts about his predictions?
 

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No, I haven't, but I did a quick Google search, and I will.
Let us know what you think of his predictions. Hozay Buck did a review on it so it already has a thread going. We bought it and I read it too. It's got some parts that seem a little incredulous to me but other parts are looking spot-on. I'd be interested in your thoughts on the subject.
 

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Let us know what you think of his predictions. Hozay Buck did a review on it so it already has a thread going. We bought it and I read it too. It's got some parts that seem a little incredulous to me but other parts are looking spot-on. I'd be interested in your thoughts on the subject.
I doubt it is at our local library, which means I will have to order it, so it may take some time. Both bookstores at our local mall closed recently.
 

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I'd offer that all should read the story of the Warsaw ghetto ,a few who knew they were going to die anyway did a hell of a lot of damage... the cornered mouse ...!

If they lose one or two for each of us, we will win over time... fighting for freedom is better pay then dying for money..

In the first part of "We were Soldiers" the Viet officer said "if we kill all they send, they will stop sending them"... good point!

Ahh zip guns!! many a person woke to find their car radio antenna MIA...

MMM is right, how I escaped with both eyes and all my cookie grabbers is beyond me...
 

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Doc - Have you read Civl War Two: The Coming Breakup of America, by Thomas W. Chittum? I so, what are your thoughts about his predictions?
Just because something is printed on paper, between the covers of a book, doesn't give it some kind of magic credibility. This is something that's still incredibly prevalent in this country, e.g., if someone in a suit & tie on TV says it, then it's gospel. Baloney, and growing all the time.

This applies to anyone who automatically goes out and repeats whatever they hear or read without thinking. And that goes for both parties.

As for these "prediction of the end of everything, just fill in the blank" books, I've read a few, and they're all just preaching to the choir. Worse, they're trying to sell a specific outcome following from the present situation. Go back and review all the "end of everything" books that were around during the Great Depression. None of those scenarios came true. NONE.

I'll give you my book, and it's free: fasten your seat belt and be prepared for just about anything. Quick & easy read, huh?

Here's someone who said it better:

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

-Robert A. Heinlein
 

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Just because something is printed on paper, between the covers of a book, doesn't give it some kind of magic credibility. This is something that's still incredibly prevalent in this country, e.g., if someone in a suit & tie on TV says it, then it's gospel. Baloney, and growing all the time.

This applies to anyone who automatically goes out and repeats whatever they hear or read without thinking. And that goes for both parties.

As for these "prediction of the end of everything, just fill in the blank" books, I've read a few, and they're all just preaching to the choir. Worse, they're trying to sell a specific outcome following from the present situation. Go back and review all the "end of everything" books that were around during the Great Depression. None of those scenarios came true. NONE.

I'll give you my book, and it's free: fasten your seat belt and be prepared for just about anything. Quick & easy read, huh?

Here's someone who said it better:

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

-Robert A. Heinlein
I don't think anyone here is so naive as to believe everything they read or hear. That would be more likely done by people not on this board.

The author of the book mentioned above has done a considerable amount of research to support his prognostications. He uses that research to make comparisons to the state of US society today and from there formulates his opinions and makes some predictions about what our future holds. Some seem a little far-fetched but some appear to be chillingly on target.

It would be foolish to take the word of one author as absolute truth (except for God, of course) but some of their opinions might be supported by fact and it might be in our best interest to listen. Like the old saying goes, when you eat a fish you don't swallow the bones. Reading with discretion is a good thing.

As for being prepared for just about anything? ... Books and interaction with others may give us insight into potetial problems we've never considered before. Even books we think are a bit flaky will at least give us a view from a different angle.
 

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What good can a handgun do against an army?

I don't think that would ever happen, because our military would probably side with the general public. Each and every person in the military has families that they wouldn't want the government knocking on their doors.
 

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by Mike Vanderboegh"If/when our Federal Government comes to pilfer, pillage, plunder our property and destroy our lives, what good can a handgun do against an army with advanced weaponry, tanks, missiles, planes, or whatever else they might have at their disposal to achieve their nefarious goals?
The answer is NOTHING.

You have NO CHANCE ALONE AGAINST A TRAINED MILITARY FORCE or even a police 'Swat' team.

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The way to keep what you have is to GET AN EDUCATION IN A SKILL.

Barter your 'Skills' for the skills of others to acquire what you want.

Then COVER AND CONCEAL what you want to keep.
The rule is the same for every circumstance,
If they can't find anything, they can't TAKE ANYTHING.

I'm pretty handy with electrical, I have machine tools and do engine/automotive work, and I'm a welder/fabricator in a farming community.

This gives me a small, but constant cash income source, and I get the chance to barter with locals for the materials/services I need.

If you pick out something like building cabinets or finish carpentry,
That will provide you with a 'Skill' that will aways be needed even if it's for building coffins or shipping crates.

There is a local guy that buys, builds/rebuilds shipping pallets,
Makes a pretty good living doing it, and his materials are mostly 'Scrap' from local businesses and the saw mills.
Pry bar, nail gun and some muscle, and you are off to the races.

I do gun smithing work on the side, so I see a lot of firearms,
I do a lot of engine machining, turning flywheels, decking heads, doing valve jobs, ect. and that is a pretty steady market that actually INCREASED since the depression started (Thank you GWB!)

I do a lot of welding for farmers, fabricating tool boxes, fabricating animal feeders, making small animal cages, welding up broken farm equipment,
So that is VERY steady and picked up since the latest depression (Thank you GWB!)

Since my retirement plans dropped off over 65% and my investments were down almost 70%... (but have since almost recovered, but I lost two years of income from them) I'm going to kick GWB in the 'stones' if I ever meet him,
But the extra work has smoothed things out around here and made life easier for us...

DIVERSIFY!
Don't limit yourself to this or that,
AND MAKE SURE YOUR 'HOBBY' pays you something!
No sense in pissing away money to entertain yourself!

Keep what you have close, and if it's valuable or easy to carry off,
Keep it HIDDEN!
Guns & tools are in the safe,
The little woman's Jewelry are HIDDEN,

I had a moron break in a few years ago, someone that had actually been to my house before,
As near as I can tell, he pried on the gun safe door for about two hours and got tired, and settled for some change in the loose change jar, some pocket knives I had laying out, and wound up with a felony charge of residential burglary for about $200 worth of stuff!
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NOTHING will stand up to a Military or Law Force assault if you are alone.
The reason Waco lasted as long as they did is they had a LOT of people shooting back,
But in the end, they virtually all died!

No egress plans.

Trapped like rats with guns.
A simple rented storage locker or rented garage off site will keep your stuff safe from aggression.

If you have land, hidden stuff doesn't get stolen or carried off by anyone.
Something as easy as a hollow wall will keep your stuff safe from most searches...
Off site will be safer if you secure your stuff from random theft.
 

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Can't believe what you read????

Well chit, here i thought the earth was round because books said so, I could go on with that bit but I won't...

Read the history of the Philippine gorillas in WW2 and how they acquired weapons and fought the Japs.. They were using Pungie stakes long before "Charlie"

Their plumbing pipe one shot shotguns won many a rifle ... or so I read...

Now for a story...

In a Elk camp back in 1980 one of the guys there was a city boy from New York, newly moved to MT, the first day he didn't make it back to camp... it was too dark to hunt for him not to mention we were in a horse camp miles from the nearest road... and it was "COLD" that night, feeling bad we all went to bed prepared to start the hunt come day light...

Morning came and I built up the fire and had coffee going while the others got the horses ready...

just as we were about to head out the guy walked into camp..none the worse for wear , his story was a lesson, he had a fanny pack with candy bars, tea bags, sugar, instant oat meal etc etc... when he realized he had headed down the wrong drainage he saw it was 3:00 pm so he stopped right there found a dead fall and built shelter, he did everything right, a bed of boughs gathered firewood for the night and by dark was snug and warm with snow water heated for tea and hot oat meal for dinner...etc etc...

When asked how he knew what to do he pulled out a worn Louie Lamoure book, one of the Sacketts books...he said it was all in there... I've read all of them and he was right.

No we ain't a bunch of naive fool and I figger a lot of use have been over the mountain and seen the Ellie- phant..so to speak.

As to Hitler, any one good man with a rifle could have ended it before it started... one has to be willing to die for ones beliefs or country or family or even friends..

One man with a hand gun can take a tank,

But for the nail the shoe was lost, but for the shoe the horse was lost, MY Kingdom for a horse... remember that?

I got it from a book!! lol
 
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