Water Well Drilling Rig rental for Average Joe

Discussion in 'Water Filtering & Storage' started by easyshack, Mar 29, 2013.

  1. easyshack

    easyshack Member

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    We need a water well, got some prices. Just a 150ft water well these guys want 12,000 bucks. And the only guarantee is they will cash your check before the sun goes down. For 12k, seems like you could get at least the grarntee that you would have water. Seems like after these guys drill for 40 yrs, they would know if you have water or not. Anyway, I don't have 12k, we just bought our dream retreat 6 acres in the woods of east Texas.
    I can do the septic, and drive way, but water well drilling, we must have. I did some checking and Drillcat.com has info on drilling rig rental. 650 per day.
    I feel better about gambling with 650 bucks instead of 12k. Even if I get a loan, man I will be old before it paid for. The Rigs they offer for rent are larger trailer rigs, not the small toy hydra turds. In most states you can drill your own water well on your land or land you have leased. My brother needs a well, so he is going to lease me his land for 1$ for 30 days, then I can drill him a well, and be legal.
    I will keep posted, we start this weekend.
     
  2. LincTex

    LincTex Jack of all trades?

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  3. LincTex

    LincTex Jack of all trades?

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    You have 5 posts to your name... and every one of them mentions drillcat.

    OK, here's where I get rubbed - why be sneaky about it? Why don't you just come out and say you work for drillcat? Would that be so hard to do?

    There's no pain in being honest about it, and you can save yourself the time and trouble of coming up with some stupid story where you can make a plug for drillcat.

    Lastly - "owned and operated by Missionary Alliance". Now, I am offended because I hate it when people make Christians look bad.
     
  4. LincTex

    LincTex Jack of all trades?

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    Are you the same guy as this (drilleditmyself, Drillingfab, Rockbuster) ?

    http://forums.homestead.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=2208&KW=drilleditmyself

    "It's kinda sad, really, because if the plans are for real and will help build a good rig on the cheap, the guy could have simply come here and said "Hey, folks, my name is __________ and I have some drilling rig plans that might be of use to you..." And, if he really has the 20 acres that were mentioned in some of the other posts, and if he really has driven/drilled three wells on that property and is knowledgeable about welding and is a DIY'er, he probably would fit right in here...

    Just goes to show that, at the end of the day, you've GOT to be honest with people... "
     
  5. FatTire

    FatTire Member

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    nice catch LincTex!
     
  6. Well_Driller

    Well_Driller Member

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    I have my doubts that the average person could go rent a rig and get a successful well on the first try, and that's after they figure out how to make a hole in the ground without loosing something.... I seen a brand new rotary setup to drill an oil well, all new equipment, they had an experienced crew but even then they lost $12,000 worth of tooling down the hole that they never got out. They had to move the rig and start a new hole..... It's bad enough when things go wrong and you know what you're doing, but if you don't know what you're doing mistakes can be very expensive. Another thing, no driller can absolutely guarantee they will find water, even though 99.9% of the time it is there, at least it is in my area but you really don't know what lies beneath you feet until you bore a hole deep into the ground. The underground landscape doesn't always match what's on the surface. We do have some known areas where there is no water, and I stay away from those areas. Equipment cost money to maintain and operate, no one wants to pay for a dry hole, and neither do I.
     
  7. LincTex

    LincTex Jack of all trades?

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    There - i fixed it for you :)
     
  8. Country Living

    Country Living Supporting Member

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    Yep... that guy is pretty sneaky about slipping spam into the forum. The well guys have the experience and the right tools and, for us, it just isn't worth the misery of trying to do something for which we had zero experience.
     
  9. LincTex

    LincTex Jack of all trades?

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    I can't deny someone wanting to buy a used Deep Rock drilling rig and practicing. It's all in knowledge of learning. Hopefully all you lost in the process is some time and maybe some pipe. You can then sell the rig to someone else so they can play with it and ruin some pipe for themselves.

    $650 a day for a rented rig is a LOT of coin to be "practicing" with. For that price, I want someone from Drillcat at my house so they are there to fix problems instantly. They are only two hours away....

    I also wonder if those trailer rigs can go through rock. Maybe they can... with enough time (and enough power). Start adding more $$$$. I see the new RockBuster R100 has a bigger diesel Kubota engine. I can see where a lack of power can get you into trouble.

    This is worth repeating:

    The drillcat manual describes using a modified post-hole digger as a base to build your own drilling rig. So I googled "post hole water well drilling rigs" and came up some neat links:

    http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/ge...ing-questions/35339-drilling-my-own-well.html
    "One potential problem that can pollute the water zone that you want to utilize. If your zone is at a depth of 100 feet and you Drilled thru another zone at say 50 feet ...and it is POOR Quality...You have to SEAL IT OFF with cement and pea gravel. Otherwise, the unwanted zone at 50 feet will gravity flow along the outside of the casing down to your good zone at 100 feet. This process is called "Communication"......and it is also the reason that MANY experienced well drillers screwup an otherwise good well that should produce good, potable, drinkable water.

    http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/138184-portable-water-well-drilling-rig.html
    "BTW, I already have a hydraulic auger drive unit that I use to drill fence posts, so I have been seriously toying with the idea of building a water well drill rig that will allow me to use the auger drive unit and my tractor hydraulics. Until I find a swivel, however, that is strong/big enough to do the job, and that I can afford, the project is dead in the water (no pun intended)."

    http://www.motherearthnews.com/do-it-yourself/how-to-dig-a-well-zmaz70jazgoe.aspx#axzz2PPXvxK8E

    http://www.hydra-jett.com/

    http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?30234-Water-well-drilling-with-a-skid-steer
    "I just finished drilling 1 99 foot hole 6.5 inches deep, at 59 feet on the second. I am using a post hole digger attachment with a home made swivel and a rotary bit off ebay(less than 100 bucks). I got lucky with the drill stem, there is a directional borer who had about 150 foot of old drill pipe they did not use anymore and gave it to me. Not so much the power of the machine but the power of the pump used to circulate the flushings. You will need to use bentonite quick gel, you can get from a well driller for about 10 bucks a bag
    also depends on what you are drilling through, clay, sand, rock

    http://www.wellspringafrica.org/drildesc.htm

    http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=36335.0
    "Last summer a friend and I successfully drilled a water well using a post hole auger driven off the PTO of his tractor. I mentioned it here and apparently there is some interest in doing the same, so here goes. Unfortunately I didn't take any pics. This will be a series of posts, too much typing for just one."

    Cement mixer water well driller:
    http://www.lostcreek.net/drillyourownwaterwell.html

    Wow.... lots of info. Check the additional links section as well..
    http://www.drillyourownwell.com/

    Pretty much a "Deep Rock" copy (lawnmower engine):
    http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/drill.html


    I would NOT try this method, unless the soil is sandy and the water table very high: http://howtodrillawell.com/
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  10. Well_Driller

    Well_Driller Member

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    I would say they probably would drill through rock, but it would require a real commercial rotary bit, and some rotary drilling experience- you would not want to push it too hard.... Some of these companies are selling fabricated bits that will not hold up in rock for very long if at all. Here's what I don't like about renting drilling equipment. We have a few places that rent fishing tools, jars etc. I prefer to just buy or make my tooling because if you rent a tool and you loose it, you end up paying for it and at a ridiculously over inflated price, and there's always that thought in the back of your mind, you don't know what your going to get into every time you drill a new well or work on an old one. If you want to learn more about it, stop and talk to the drillers if you see a rig working somewhere, watch what they do. I'm one of few cable tool rigs still working in my area and occasionally when i'm drilling somewhere someone will stop by and have a chat. Sometimes it's someone who worked on the cable tool rigs of the oil fields, and sometimes it's someone who is interested in how it's done, or maybe a potential new customer. I know most people here prefer to have their wells drilled with the cable tool and that's mainly due to so many of the wells that are drilled with the rotaries are screwed up, but that has more to do with the guys who are operating the rigs than the rotary itself. Some of the morons around here have given the rotary a bad name..... I have gone in and fixed many, and have also drilled the second well for customers who's first well was done with a rotary and they said they'll never have another one drilled with a rotary......
     
  11. Country Living

    Country Living Supporting Member

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    Please educate me... what's the difference between rotary and cable tool?
     
  12. LincTex

    LincTex Jack of all trades?

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    A rotary has a bit that turns, like a drill bit of sorts.
    A cable rig picks up a heavy bar and drops it to hammer a hole through the earth.
     
  13. farmers

    farmers Supporting Member

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    Easyshack, did you get approval from your water district. To drill a water well in Texas, you need permission from the Texas Water Association. And this is filed with the TCEQ in Austin. Now we have 9 major aquifers in Texas, and they need protection. Remember Ozark coming in and pumping out of are aquifer, drying up peoples wells.
    You can have no idea what you are doing. Those big rigs can be very dangerous if you don't know what you are doing.

    Please use good judgment before you proceed. You are about to break many laws, and could cost many people there water. Our well cost $15,000 putting in 18 years ago.
     
  14. LincTex

    LincTex Jack of all trades?

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    You aren't going to get a reply from him.
     
  15. Country Living

    Country Living Supporting Member

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    Ah, wait until he creates yet another logon and somehow weaves in "facts" that the water districts like people to use the whatever thing he's trying to push. Just give him time... as in minutes not days. He is persistent....
     
  16. haley4217

    haley4217 Guess I've been a member long enough to not be a N

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    I agree that much of the promotion of the drilling equipment is certainly spam, but I do want to put a couple of quotes out there for people who live in Texas and who may want to drill a water well to be aware of. Both of these come from the Texas Administrative Code.

    First as it relates to liscensing of a drilling machine.

    "§76.30. Exemptions.
    The following are not required to obtain a license under the Code.
    ..........
    (3) Any person who installs or repairs water well pumps and equipment on his own property, or on property that he has leased or rented, for his own use."

    This is consistant with what was explained to me by a water well driller when I questioned him about a large ranch owner who had his own drilling rig. Key words to note thare is "for his own use", you can't drill a well to sell water to your neighbor.

    The second as it relates to the permitting of wells by the local groundwater districts who administer the Texas Water Code.

    "Sec. 36.002. OWNERSHIP OF GROUNDWATER.
    (a) The legislature recognizes that a landowner owns the groundwater below the surface of the landowner's land as real property.(b) The groundwater ownership and rights described by this section:
    (1) entitle the landowner, including a landowner's lessees, heirs, or assigns, to drill for and produce the groundwater below the surface of real property, subject to Subsection (d), without causing waste or malicious drainage of other property or negligently causing subsidence, but does not entitle a landowner, including a landowner's lessees, heirs, or assigns, to the right to capture a specific amount of groundwater below the surface of that landowner's land; and
    (2) do not affect the existence of common law defenses or other defenses to liability under the rule of capture.(c) Nothing in this code shall be construed as granting the authority to deprive or divest a landowner, including a landowner's lessees, heirs, or assigns, of the groundwater ownership and rights described by this section.(d)"

    Very important part of the Code in Texas as it keeps our right to "own" the groundwater under our property and does not deligate it or give it to the groundwater district.

    So, you may need and should go to the local groundwater district to get a permit. It is usually quick and easy and mine was at a minimal cost to cover administration. You can then under TAC 76.30 (IMO) and as I have witnessed in practice, drill your own well. (Although I can't imagine why in the long run).

    But, in complete support of what has been said earlier in the thread.... Use common sense and protect the ground water. The TAC does permit the Groundwater District to bring enforcement actions including limitations on pumping if you begin to harm your neighbors groundwater or the aquifer. This happend in my district two years ago when an un-regulated well on property adjacent to mine was pumping out water at high volumes and brought the water level in wells surrounding it down by almost a hundred feet.
     
  17. Well_Driller

    Well_Driller Member

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    I'll add to this- The rotary can drill much faster, they can drill and finish a well in one day here. The cable tool takes anywhere from 3 days to a week to do the same well, but if you're in an area where the wells yield very little water it is much easier to find that water and develop the well with a cable tool rig. It is very easy to miss or mud off a 1 GPM streak of water in fractured rock with a rotary. We have areas where wells will yield +100 GPM, and other areas where you're lucky to get 1 GPM. Those 1GPM wells are little more difficult to develop with a rotary.
     
  18. Country Living

    Country Living Supporting Member

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    Is the ability to find water "easier" with a cable tool rig because you're fracturing rock to get water flowing through it or have I completely missed the concept? Is it similar to the fracking the rigs are doing?
     
  19. Well_Driller

    Well_Driller Member

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    When a rotary is drilling you have to pump either mud, water or air down the center of the drill under pressure and this comes back up out of the hole carrying the drill cuttings with it. When you get into a little streak of water these cuttings can easily plug it off and you would not even know it was there. It could only be a 6" fracture in the rock and you will drill past it very quickly, say you can get 100 ft in a couple hours. When you're drilling with a cable rig you have to put water in the hole to drill. This allows the cuttings to mix with the water and every 5 to 10 feet or so you have to stop and bail it out with a bailer. This is how you get the cuttings out of the hole. You maybe drilling at a rate of 5ft/hr in the rock. So in stopping to bail it every 5 or 10 feet if you start getting more water out of the hole then you put into it then you found some water, and because the cable tool isn't forcing mud or air down into the hole under pressure like the rotary does it doesn't plug off that little fracture where there is that little bit of water. So with the cable rig your drill string is on a cable and you can easily go in and out of the hole in a just a few minutes so you can run the bailer down the hole. With a rotary once you start drilling, you don't bring the drill string back out of the hole until you're done, and because a rotary uses drill pipe instead of cable, every section that you added while drilling has to be pulled up, unscrewed and put away, so that can take an hour or so just to get the tools back out of the hole. Some rotaries have the sandline so they can use a bailer, but you just can't stop and pull the drilling tools out of the hole as it's not practical. Some rotary guys do use a bailer to develop the well once they are done drilling.