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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
.... So says Dr. Stephen Hawking.

Of course, this is a guy who has spent his life in a wheelchair, unable to talk or move on his own, so he probably has good reason to be bitter. Not sure I can take his opinion seriously, given his situation.

He claims that since time did not exist before the Big Bang, there is no "time" in which for God to exist. Nevermind that almost all religions say that their creator existed before time, and if there was an atom that split, why couldn't a timeless being exist along with it?:D
 

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performing monkey
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.... So says Dr. Stephen Hawking.

Of course, this is a guy who has spent his life in a wheelchair, unable to talk or move on his own, so he probably has good reason to be bitter. Not sure I can take his opinion seriously, given his situation.

He claims that since time did not exist before the Big Bang, there is no "time" in which for God to exist. Nevermind that almost all religions say that their creator existed before time, and if there was an atom that split, why couldn't a timeless being exist along with it?:D
actually this is the second time hawking has flip-flopped on this issue... around the same time as a new book comes out :hmmm:
 

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I'm agnostic, preferring to life an honorable life being good to everybody...

Having said that, where do space and the big bang come from? What are the limits? Are we nothing more then really really really small particles on some larger atom, literally the flea on the tail of the elephant? What happens when we die? I've known people that have "died" and they all report there was nothing.
 

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The Future?
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I'm agnostic, preferring to life an honorable life being good to everybody...

Having said that, where do space and the big bang come from? What are the limits? Are we nothing more then really really really small particles on some larger atom, literally the flea on the tail of the elephant? What happens when we die? I've known people that have "died" and they all report there was nothing.
Good luck with all that!
 

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Spiritual Prepper
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.... So says Dr. Stephen Hawking.

Of course, this is a guy who has spent his life in a wheelchair, unable to talk or move on his own, so he probably has good reason to be bitter. Not sure I can take his opinion seriously, given his situation.
Well, from everything I've read/heard about him, he is not bitter at all.
And he is very much loved and respected by his students.
What he is, is a scientist. Hard-core (no pun intended :D).
Two of my close friends are mathematicians. Good luck having a spiritual conversation with them.
If it does not fit into some theorem and cannot be proven with some aksiom - it does not exist.
People just have different mind sets. It is strange to you that some people don't believe in God and it is strange to them that you do.
But we can still all get along :)
 

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I'd rather believe in God and die to discover he doesn't exist than not believe in God and die to discover he does!!!:rolleyes:
 

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Scavenger deluxe
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There is no "GOD"
There are many.
Find the one you love,
stay loyal,
reap the benefits.

Mine tells me the time is soon.:cry:
 

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The wanderer
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I'd rather believe in God and die to discover he doesn't exist than not believe in God and die to discover he does!!!:rolleyes:
Exellently worded! I'm not always sure He does, but I sure hope so.

This from Idigo is also exellently worded: "It is strange to you that some people don't believe in God and it is strange to them that you do"
 

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Seeking The Truth
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.... So says Dr. Stephen Hawking.

Of course, this is a guy who has spent his life in a wheelchair, unable to talk or move on his own, so he probably has good reason to be bitter. Not sure I can take his opinion seriously, given his situation.

He claims that since time did not exist before the Big Bang, there is no "time" in which for God to exist. Nevermind that almost all religions say that their creator existed before time, and if there was an atom that split, why couldn't a timeless being exist along with it?:D
Bless his heart,I'd be bitter too,we have a nephew who it seems was born to suffer too.
There is a God alright.If we exist,then so does God.
Time did exist or the stars would not know when to die. We are creators and we are created by creators "Let US make man in our Image,after OUR likeness".
If I lived to suffer,I'd probably be mad at God too .We don't have the mind of God so we can't understand His ways,anymore than a 3yr old understands why their parents disciplines them , not saying this man is being disciplined.
 

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Just getting started. Always.
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I'd rather believe in God and die to discover he doesn't exist than not believe in God and die to discover he does!!!:rolleyes:
I believe this is Pascals Wager.

I dont believe in the god of the bible, but I certainly dont believe that science has all the answers. I have been spiritual in the past, but never 'religious' in the conventional meaning.
I happen to believe in evolution, but partially because its the only theory out there. Im a big fan of Richard Dawkins, and have read most of his books. I went through a period where I read everything I could on evolution and genetics. The Seven Daughters of Eve (Sykes) is another great read, and Carl Sagans Pale Blue Dot is one of the best books Ive ever read.

I think my biggest problem with religion, and I guess spirituality in general, is that we suspend reason when we discuss/ponder the unknowable. I know and love some pretty hardcore believers (some in my family) that believe the strangest things, that fly in the face of obvious facts, even when they are holding the proof of said facts in their own hands.
I guess really whichever you believe, as in evolution or the creation story, either one is pretty far out there.
As far as time and the big bang, I have two ideas/questions.
Maybe I just have a hard time envisioning 'nothingness', but if there was a big bang, what was outside the singularity? Nothingness? I cant grasp that. One of my college buddies is a real life rocket scientist who works for JPL. I used to ask him that, to which he had no answer, but I guess I shouldnt have expected him to. That same nothingness is outside of the universe? Its what the universe is expanding into? Whoa. Just looking up at the night sky is absolutely fascinating enough.
Time. I see time as an entirely human construct. Truly, "Without you, time has no meaning". Too much for me to handle.
 

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Seeking The Truth
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The meaning of time is not just reading a clock. In'time'suns die and new galaxies are formed.
We can explain matter and energy ,but Darwyn or Einstein can'nt explain thinking,seeing or creating.
There is no more proof of a big bang than there is a big creator. All is theory .Unless you have experianced the spirit world you don't know for sure .
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
. . The Seven Daughters of Eve (Sykes) is another great read...
HA! I believe you are only the second person that I have ever come across who has read this book! Very interesting stuff!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well, from everything I've read/heard about him, he is not bitter at all. And he is very much loved and respected by his students.
What he is, is a scientist. Hard-core (no pun intended :D).
Two of my close friends are mathematicians. Good luck having a spiritual conversation with them.
If it does not fit into some theorem and cannot be proven with some aksiom - it does not exist.
People just have different mind sets. It is strange to you that some people don't believe in God and it is strange to them that you do.
But we can still all get along :)
Yeah, perhaps I shouldn't have said that he is "bitter"... Let us say instead that he has a much different perspective on the world than most of us.

I honestly feel badly for most scientific types... They all seem slightly dead inside, as though there is no mystery or adventure in the world. Now, granted, I managed to make it through high school and college without taking a Chemistry or Physics class or any math classes more advanced than Algebra I and Geometry, so I have no great love for math (though, oddly, Quantum physics I find fascinating). It just seems obvious to me that there are truths to our world (and universe) that we cannot understand at our current level, and it seems like arrogance and folly to purport to understand. It seems as though it is every other day that a "new and fantastic discovery" is made that "totally rewrites everything we know about ______", only to be contradicted the next week by some other amazing discovery. We are toddlers playing with the toys of adults, and it is absurd to assume that we have figured out everything.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Bless his heart,I'd be bitter too,we have a nephew who it seems was born to suffer too.
There is a God alright.If we exist,then so does God.
Time did exist or the stars would not know when to die. We are creators and we are created by creators "Let US make man in our Image,after OUR likeness".
If I lived to suffer,I'd probably be mad at God too .We don't have the mind of God so we can't understand His ways,anymore than a 3yr old understands why their parents disciplines them , not saying this man is being disciplined.
I agree with you, though I must say that I know a girl who was seemingly "born to suffer" as well, who may have the strongest faith of anyone I have ever met.

This girl used to work for me, years ago. She was only about 24 years old, and in that short time she has survived cancer (twice), was widowed when her husband of only two years was killed in action in Iraq, and has a toddler who was born with a heart defect and has undergone four (that I know of) open-heart surgeries before the age of three. And yet, this girl is the sweetest, gentlest, and most faithful person I know. People will hear her stories and say, "That's terrible! I don't know how you go on!", and she will respond simply, "I trust in God." She is truly an inspiration to me.
 

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Granted I'm not a very imaginative person, but the theory of evolution is a tough pill for me to swallow. To me it's like standing around a junkyard full of cars & awaiting a shiny new, perfectly running car to appear. It makes much more sense that it was all formed by some intellegent being.

I'm a home health nurse for chronically medically fragile kids & have been for 6 years. These kids are just simply awesome. I truly believe they are angels from heaven sent to teach the rest of us. They are truly a blessing to those lucky enough to get to be a regular part of their lives.
 

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Spiritual Prepper
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I'd rather believe in God and die to discover he doesn't exist than not believe in God and die to discover he does!!!:rolleyes:
And it is your right to make this choice. Just as others have a right not to believe in God.
Everyone has their own path (but we all heading in the same direction ;))
 

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performing monkey
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I honestly feel badly for most scientific types... They all seem slightly dead inside, as though there is no mystery or adventure in the world.
IMO that is a very poor representational sampling you've been exposed to, especially when read with the rest of your post.

My (future) mentor asked me on my first day "just WHY do you want to enter a field where you WILL eventually be proven wrong?"
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
IMO that is a very poor representational sampling you've been exposed to, especially when read with the rest of your post.

My (future) mentor asked me on my first day "just WHY do you want to enter a field where you WILL eventually be proven wrong?"
Are you disagreeing with my take on the scientific folks? Believe me, I would venture to say that I have to deal with more scientists, computer people, and mathematicians on a daily basis than anyone else on this website. I would say that I have seen a pretty good representation of the most technologically advanced people in the country, and it holds pretty true.

Into what field are you entering?
 
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