Featured The 9mm handgun challenge

Discussion in 'Guns-N-Bullets' started by Sentry18, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. Sentry18

    Sentry18 Moderator Staff Member

    10,798
    2,673
    The other day I was having a conversation with a group of guys at the range, a couple of whom are self-appointed gun experts. Attending a single NRA course and volunteering at the range being their only qualifications for such an esteemed classification. We started talking about affordable handgun options for the "common person" who might have some familiarity with shooting but does not own a handgun. This was in the context of range officers being asked this often. This of course lead into the same old debate about Hi-Points, Kel-Tecs and polymer Taurus autos versus high end custom Glocks. That's when I decided it was time to go.

    One of the experts (who owns and carries a $2,000 Zev Tech Glock 19) stopped me and tried to get me to side with him. After all I own a custom G19 and a pile of other guns, surely we are like minded. I gave my standard spiel that I did not care for most of the budget offerings nor did I think one had to have a high end pistol to adequately protect themselves. I also added that there were many excellent used autos and wheel guns on the market that could be purchased for under $250 that were superior arms to the options discussed. He could not have disagreed more and in his opinion you had to exceed $500 to get something worth a damn. I told him I would take that challenge. We then discussed terms.

    He is going to buy or produce a factory stock gun in 9mm that cost more than $500 and I am going to buy or produce a factory stock gun in 9mm that cost $250 and we are going to run them side by side through a standard qualification course of fire at the range sometime in December. We have to provide proof of the price of the gun, we will be using the same ammo, the same number of magazines, etc. There will only be one range safety officer present who will be our score keeper and judge. The course will be scored by speed and accuracy. The loser's photo will be posted on the bulletin board in the range lobby along with a sign saying "I was bested by ______ and his _____ 9mm".

    I perused one of the local gun shops the other day and they had 5 used guns I could get for $250 that should do the trick: a Ruger 9E, a Ruger P89DC, a Taurus PT-92 (older production), a S&W SD9 and a S&W 915. I am going to think on it for a bit and see what else is available for the price point. I want to have at least a week or two of range time with it before the competition.
     
    cqp33, obg12, camo2460 and 5 others like this.
  2. TheLazyL

    TheLazyL Cowboy

    3,671
    237
    I got a used, LEO trade-in S&W that looked like new for just under $300. Just a touch of holster rash.

    A $300 reliable firearm allows me to put all of my concentration towards what I'm punching holes in. $2,000 custom I'd be more concerned about putting a scratch on it then accurately punching holes.
     
    Kodeman, obg12, terri9630 and 5 others like this.

  3. RedBeard

    RedBeard aka. Red the Butcher

    1,308
    740
    This sounds fun! Please keep us posted!
     
    obg12 and Sentry18 like this.
  4. backlash

    backlash Well-Known Member

    1,199
    226
    That should be fun.
    I would be trying to get in his head and make him really think about what loosing will mean.
    Looking forward to the results.
     
    Sentry18 and Caribou like this.
  5. Sentry18

    Sentry18 Moderator Staff Member

    10,798
    2,673
    The gun to gun comparison is definitely part of this, but shutting down his constant 'Cliff Clavin' like expertise in all things gun related is a bigger part. He is the kind of guy who will shoot a slow fire 8" group at 15 yards but see you put one round out during rapid fire and come over to tell you what you are doing wrong and coach you. There are people who will call the range and ask who the range officers is before they come, just to avoid him. I am pretty confident that I could beat him with a j-frame snubby but I am still going to practice a bit and make sure. I should have made the terms "winner gets the other guys gun". As I am sure he will be dropping well over $500 (he is not poor).
     
    BlueZ, obg12, camo2460 and 4 others like this.
  6. havasu

    havasu Just a family friend

    348
    232
    The top right target I shot 15 rounds at 15 yards using my buddies Beretta / Wilson Combat 92 G, which cost him $1300. The lower left were 15 shots from 15 yards using my new H&K VP9 tactical, which cost me $500. As you can see, I made a grave error and am going to purchase one of these Wilson Combat handguns.


    20170619_130651.jpg
     
    obg12, dademoss, Caribou and 2 others like this.
  7. Sentry18

    Sentry18 Moderator Staff Member

    10,798
    2,673

    As my Dad used to tell me, putting multiple bullets into one organ doesn't kill a man as fast as putting multiple bullets into several organs. ;)
     
    Kodeman, cqp33, obg12 and 4 others like this.
  8. Caribou

    Caribou Time Traveler Staff Member

    5,878
    919
    A buddy of mine complained about a target like yours on the bottom. I asked him if his goal was personal defense or if he was particularly interested in shooting the buttons off some guy's shirt.
     
    Balls004, Kodeman, cqp33 and 6 others like this.
  9. Sentry18

    Sentry18 Moderator Staff Member

    10,798
    2,673
    Okay, so I am 95% sure I have the gun figured out. Police trade in Sig P250C 9mm. Seller wanted $275 and allegedly paid $325 for it, but has tentatively accepted my offer of $250. I have a lot of trigger time on the Sig P320C 9mm which is the striker fired version of this same gun. The two share the same grip module, the same controls, the same metal trigger and the same magazines. The P250C is hammer fired with a long very smooth pull, so that will take a little time to master. But I am no stranger to DAO guns from S&W, Beretta, etc. so I should be able to adapt pretty easily. As long as nothing goes wrong with the transaction I should have it in less than a week. Then I can start practicing.

    P250C.jpg

    On an unrelated note; all of this searching for used 9mm handguns for $250 or less has made me even less likely to ever recommend a "budget gun" from low QC manufacturers. There are so many good to very good duty grade guns out there that there is no reason to settle for bottom tier.
     
    obg12, camo2460, RedBeard and 3 others like this.
  10. cqp33

    cqp33 Supporting Member

    580
    43
    I just bought a Kimber micro 9, first shoot with it I am liking it. good concealed carry firearm IMO.

    I will be buying a Sig2022 as well, rally like that one but I wanted a concealed carry model this time around. Yup I am keeping my .45's but shifting to 9mm for carry purposes! Cheaper to shoot and 2 to the chest...dead is dead!
     
    Sentry18, obg12 and Caribou like this.
  11. oldasrocks

    oldasrocks Well-Known Member

    466
    48
    I am a poor lonely Taurus owner. But at 15 yards, 10 shots in 10 seconds I grouped 8 shots in a 3 inch circle. One was an inch high and one round 1/2 outside the circle at 11 am. 45acp

    It's not the gun but the shooter.
     
    obg12 and dademoss like this.
  12. terri9630

    terri9630 Internet Princess

    2,791
    768
    Your not completely alone, I have a little 22 Taurus.
     
    obg12 and Caribou like this.
  13. RedBeard

    RedBeard aka. Red the Butcher

    1,308
    740
    I don't know i can't give up my .45. With +p rounds getting 1800fps that makes the old .45 sing.
     
    obg12 likes this.
  14. ssonb

    ssonb Well-Known Member

    104
    250
    The most accurate 45 I own is the PT1911 it is also the least expensive and finally it is a Tarus. I was surprised , I have custom 45s but this one seemed to have a majik about it.
     
    RedBeard and obg12 like this.
  15. Magus

    Magus Scavenger deluxe

    6,662
    76
    HI-power FTW every time IMHO. I hate polymer guns and dislike aluminum frames.
     
    BlueZ, Sentry18 and obg12 like this.
  16. ssonb

    ssonb Well-Known Member

    104
    250
    1800FPS!!!!!! I hope you are talking about a 45 magnum
     
    RedBeard likes this.
  17. cqp33

    cqp33 Supporting Member

    580
    43
    i get 1180fps out of my beretta CX4 with 185 grain TMJ's but thats out of a carbine not a pistol.

    Edit - My beretta CX4 is .45
     
    Sentry18 and Caribou like this.
  18. BlueZ

    BlueZ Well-Known Member

    1,894
    63
    I like your idea and bet.. but.. i think used expensive and so now cheaper guns should probably be excluded if you are to compare performance differences between a "class" of guns.
    Because you can buy an expensive gun used.. and then it kinda defeats the purpose.
    There are some new full size guns from Taurus for just under 300 that might fit the bill.
    On sale I would not be surprised if u find one under 250.
    Also EAA has some 250 or under handguns that are clones of Walthers.

    Actually I am sure you can beat him with a compact.. such as a Taurus PT111 Millennium G2. I shoot it very very close to my full size MP9 because of its fantastic stippling and the dimples are perfect to support a good grip.
     
    Sentry18 likes this.
  19. Sentry18

    Sentry18 Moderator Staff Member

    10,798
    2,673
    Sorry guys, I am glad you had/have good luck with your Tauri and they work for you, but I see them fail so often at the range I could never trust them. The last time someone was going to show me how the G2 could keep up with S&W/Glock/Sig/etc. his gun locked up and had to go back to Taurus twice 'til it worked again. That's why Taurus' CEO gets fired every few years and they have recently lost some major lawsuits. If I can buy a quality duty-grade gun for $250, there's no reason to buy a bottom tier gun.

    I also could have picked up a Tristar, Canik, Sarsilmaz, Zenith, EAA or other gun from Turkey but they don't really interest me. Primarily because I don't like the idea of my money possibly ending up in the pocket of a terrorist or supporting terrorism.
     
    Balls004, Caribou and terri9630 like this.
  20. terri9630

    terri9630 Internet Princess

    2,791
    768
    I use my tarus for playing at the range. I like it's size for CC but wouldn't trust my kids lives to it so I carry the shield instead.
     
    Caribou and Sentry18 like this.