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· Seeker of Knowledge
30 Posts
Wow... Just gave it a quick scan looks like a guesstimate to me but you know how those go there never write I will give it a read thank you

· Seeker of Knowledge
30 Posts
Why is it when government gets involved it is never a rose garden or just the optiset .. You ask a knowledgeable person and they will tell you things need to get started to change things today for next week but the government will ignore it until one day they stand up and say the sky is falling and we need to get out of the way or na is just looks like its falling .. I know and everyone else knows common sense is what is needed.. but why can they not apply this to what they do and say I will Finnish reading it tonight or tomorrow time is what I lack . between Work , Chores , and my personal shop time their is just not enough time

· ke4sky
190 Posts
U.S. ready for Mexico violence - Military would respond to drug war

Friday, January 9th, 2009 'The El Paso Times' / El Paso, TX

(Edited for brevity and generic law enforcement pertinence)
to read the full article see:
U.S. ready for Mexico violence - El Paso Times

EL PASO -- If Mexico's vicious drug war ever spills into El Paso, the United States has several response plans, one of which calls for a military surge along the U.S.-Mexico border, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said this week.

Chertoff has instructed the 22 federal agencies that fall under Homeland Security to develop border-violence response plans because the drug war in Mexico appears to be escalating, not ending. So far, more than 5,300 people have been killed across Mexico as rival drug cartels continue to fight over drug trafficking corridors.

One drug corridor at the center of the violence is the Juárez "plaza," where more than 1,600 people were killed last year. In Mexico, "plaza" refers to a drug cartel's territory.

"We completed a contingency plan for border violence, so if we did get a significant spillover, we have a surge -- if I may use that word -- capability to bring in not only our own assets but even to work with" the Defense Department, Chertoff told The New York Times.

He did not give details on how, when or where the military might be used.

The El Paso Times could not reach Chertoff, but Jason Ciliberti, a spokesman for U.S. Customs and Border Protection,20which is one of the federal agencies under the Homeland Security department, confirmed the contingency plans. He said federal agencies have had border-violence response plans for several months now.

"We need them so customs and Border Patrol can continue daily operations," Ciliberti said from his Washington, D.C., office. "The other reason the plans exist is because these agencies, which are all a part of Homeland Security, must provide U.S. citizens with a safe place to live. If the violence threatens the daily safety and daily routine of U.S. citizens, Homeland Security must be ready."

Ciliberti said the contingency plans vary, but for the most part, if the violence in Mexico spills into the U.S., the first Homeland Security plan calls for increasing the number of Border Patrol agents in the region. The El Paso sector now has about 2,500 Border Patrol agents. Chertoff said that nationally, an additional 19,000 agents will be deployed this year.

The Homeland Security plan also calls for the partnering of federal agents with local and state police officers to help patrol any areas where border violence is occurring.

It is unknown how many federal agents and officers are in El Paso, but all of the agents who work for immigration and customs are a part of the Homeland Security network.

"As a last resort, it would include the military," Ciliberti said.

Paul Boyce, a spokesman with U.S. Army public affairs office in the Pentagon, said all of the U.S. armed forces, including the Army and Fort Bliss, are a part of U.S. emergency contingency plans. He said the military is ready to help any city, state or region in any type of emergency.

· Registered
5 Posts
What do they mean "spill over".... those guys not only have to come across but bring guns or come across and get guns on this side....

Are they just crossing the fence? Isn't the fence lined with cameras? If they need to fight over areas of El Paso shouldnt that say things about its current status....

· ke4sky
190 Posts
Mexican Army Incursions into US

Mexican Army support of the dopers is well documented:

WASHINGTON -- Armed men in Mexican military uniforms have illegally crossed into the United States to provide cover for drug smugglers, and have fired upon U.S. Border Patrol agents on several occasions, a congressional panel was told Tuesday.

Border Patrol Union President T.J. Bonner detailed three incidents since 2000 in which U.S. agents were chased and fired upon by what he characterized as Mexican soldiers operating inside U.S. borders. Bonner testified before the House Homeland Security Investigations Subcommittee on Tuesday...

Mexican military incursions into U.S. inflame border situation - Security-

Mexican Army incursions onto U.S. soil to protect drug runners

During his travels along the border, Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-CO) learned that the Mexican Army and Law Enforcement Agencies routinely make incursions into the U.S. A total of 23 were confirmed by the U.S. government in 2001, and there have been over 115 since 1996. The purpose of these incursions is not totally understood, but U.S. officials have speculated that they are designed to help facilitate the flow of illegal drugs into America, either by creating a diversion or by providing cover for the traffickers.

When Rep. Tancredo sent a letter to the Mexican government, the Embassy in Washington, DC sent a curt response to his inquiry, implying that the troops were merely getting lost. Not a single U.S. law enforcement agent on the ground in the southwest has agreed with that explanation.

Rep. Tancredo's office has begun documenting new incursions as they take place. Most recently, two disturbing incursions have taken place. On May 17th, a Mexican Army unit led an incursion near Ajo, Arizona that ended with a shot being fired at a Border Patrol Agent. The agent was not hurt, but had two of his vehicle's windows shot out. On June 14th, the Mexican Army opened fire (with high-powered .308 rifles) on a vehicle with 20 people packed into it. Six of the passengers were injured, two critically.

Despite Rep. Tancredo's efforts to draw attention to them, each incident received only spotty coverage.

(From U.S. House Immigration Reform Caucus website).

Mexican Army incursions onto U.S. soil to protect drug runners - Desert Invasion - US

Mexican military incursions into the United States - San Miguel de Allende, Mexico

An Arizona congressman yesterday demanded the State Department take "immediate diplomatic action" to stop Mexican military incursions into the United States, saying U.S. Border Patrol agents face a continuing threat of being killed by rogue soldiers protecting drug smugglers.

Two-term Republican Rep. Rick Renzi, in a letter to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, said reports of Mexican military units providing armed escorts to drug and alien smuggling operations represent "narco-terrorism in its purest form."

"Our borders are under attack by sophisticated organizations that have no qualms about firing on our Border Patrol units," Mr. Renzi said. "As we get tougher and more committed, so do the organizations committed to smuggling death and terror across our borders."

A State Department official yesterday said the department is "in touch with the Mexican government when incidents occur," adding that "they are usually resolved at that time at the local level." The official did not know whether Mr. Renzi's letter had been received.

Meanwhile, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff yesterday told reporters at Defense Today magazine that Mexican military incursions average about 20 a year, but were declining.

He called concern over the issue "overblown" and "scare tactics."

Mr. Chertoff also said a significant number of the incursions were "innocent," noting that police and military units in Mexico pursuing criminals "may step across the border because they do not know exactly where the line is."

"Sometimes they may be people who are dressed in what appear to be military uniforms but they are just criminals, they are not military but they are wearing camouflage so someone may assume they are military," he said.

"We have good relations with our counterparts across the border, we do have instances where we have Mexican police or military who deserted and become involved with criminal activity but we also have bad cops in the United States, too. It happens," he said.

The U.S. Border Patrol recently warned agents in Arizona of military incursions by Mexican soldiers "trained to escape, evade and counter-ambush" if detected. The warning follows increased sightings of what authorities describe as heavily armed Mexican military units on the U.S. side of the border.

While the Mexican government has vigorously denied that its military is crossing into the U.S., Mr. Renzi said that during a tour of the Arizona border last month in a U.S. Customs and Immigration Enforcement (ICE) helicopter, the pilot showed him military-style humvees lining up at dusk just south of the border to move drugs into the U.S.

He said the preparations occur nightly, noting that 50 percent of the drugs coming into this country pass though the Arizona desert.

"The Border Patrol knows they're coming but they are outmanned and outgunned," he said. "We need military technology to combat these military operations."

Mr. Renzi also said states such as Arizona should be able to supplement federal border enforcement with federally financed state border guard units. He said states can react quickly to new border threats, and that the federal government is unable to graduate enough new agents.

"Border states are tired of waiting for a secure border," he said.

The Border Patrol warning asked the agents to report the size, activity, location, time and equipment of any units observed, but warned them to keep "a low profile," use "cover and concealment" in approaching the units, and to "stay as quiet as possible."

Rafael Laveaga, spokesman for the Mexican Embassy in Washington, denied this week that the Mexican military was crossing into the United States. He said the use by some drug smugglers of green uniforms and military-style vehicles had "confused" U.S. authorities.

Mr. Laveaga said Mexican military units have strict protocols to prevent them from crossing the border.

But T.J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council, which represents all 10,000 of the agency's non-supervisory personnel, said it was "common knowledge" along the border that some Mexican military units, federal and state police, and former Mexican soldiers are paid by drug cartels to protect shipments of cocaine, marijuana and heroin into the United States.

A total of 216 incursions by suspected Mexican military units have been documented since 1996 -- 75 in California, 63 in Arizona and 78 in Texas, according to a Department of Homeland Security report.

Mr. Renzi said radar-equipped aerostat balloons now on the border have forced airplanes that previously brought drugs into the United States to "land short," about 120 miles south of the border where the drugs are transferred to vehicles to be driven across the border. He said the balloons could be mounted with sensors to detect the approach of drug smugglers and "the muscle that protects them."

He is the author of a $50 million border intelligence pilot program known as "Red Zone Defense," which was included in the Department of Homeland Security's appropriation bill. It would coordinate the sharing of intelligence on border security information in Cochise County, Ariz., an area of the border that has become the nation's most popular drug and alien smuggling corridor.

Mr. Renzi said the two-year program would use airships, aerostats and unmanned aerial vehicles for surveillance that could pinpoint the exact location of drug smugglers on the border. He said that would give Border Patrol agents increased security.

· Newbie
8 Posts
Damn! Fort Huachuca was my last duty station. It grieves me to see how bad its gotten in just 20 years. I did a lot of small scale mining in Cochise county and even back then there were tell tale signs of passing varmints. They would stop and screw with everything and leave a big mess at my sites.I could tell who they were from the Mexican soda cans and candy wrappers. One day I was working a claim between Sierra Vista and Tombstone when a pair of fellows asked me in broken English to give them a ride to Tucson! One held out a 100 Peso note. I held out my hand holding a 4" barrel .357. They left.

· Scavenger deluxe
7,453 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
And now they want to ban OUR guns because Mexgov is too corrupt and weak to stop the drug's going to be an interesting four years guys.

· Registered
29 Posts

I'm not done reading this thing yet, and I thank you for posting it.

Yes it is frightening. I'll agree to that. Especially this:

"In terms of worst-case scenarios for the Joint Force and indeed the world, two large and important states bear consideration for a rapid and sudden collapse: Pakistan and Mexico."

It's even more clear now what an absolute disaster the Bush II presidency was: through half-hearted efforts on Al Qaida and the Taliban in Afghanistan, and inattention to Pakistan, the end result pushed the enemy into Pakistan, where they have nukes mind you.

We should have seized (if even possible) the border areas first and taken the flatlands later. They now control large chunks of Pakistan and can destabilize the entire country. Did I mention they have nukes?

And w/ all our resources wasted on a war for oil in Iraq, we can't control our own southern border. I'm sure you have all heard recently the fact of 283 US cities now have large and very powerful Mexico-based drug gangs. They are hoping to do here what they probably will do in Mexico.

Now on to the article itself. It's good, but there's some underlying assumptions that I think are either wrong or misguided.

It never mentions Peak Oil or even that the amount of oil left to get is now a controversy, and assumes that the oil in the most troubled part of the world is still necessary. We can't maintain our current lifestyle w/o I'd say we might have a better lifestyle if we make ourselves live w/o it. It never even considers lifestyle changes as an option, something that many people feel is inevitable.

I also found the carefully-worded passages about opposition to drilling for oil in protected areas (ANWR, for example) pretty funny when the graph shows that those reserves won't amount to squat. It's like a cocaine addict saying he needs one more fix before he can enter rehab.

Why do we need to be worried so much about wars developing all over the world. Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't want them either, and certainly not a nuclear exchange, but why must we assume that the US just has to get involved when they break out? It's a fairly recent concept in US foreign policy (since WWII) that we just have to be involved globally. Don't we have our own problems in our own back yard? Anyone heard of "Fortress America"?

· Registered
363 Posts
I know this is an older topic but I thought I'd share my two cents anyway.

You are probably not going to agree with me, but building a wall between the US and Mexico is pointless. Look around. They are already here. It's too late to worry about illegal immigration. An expensive wall project isn't going to stop them anyway. It's just going to waste millions in taxpayer dollars and MAYBE reduce the amount of illegals who enter the country per year.

If anything, we should be working to strengthen relations with Mexico and make it a US territory like guam or the virgin islands. Then, battle the drug problem from within instead of just sitting on the fence wondering what is going on over there.

You move big business and technology down into Mexico, boost their standard of living, they won't need to flood into our country.

· Junior Member
82 Posts
There is only one way to stop the flood of illegals into the US, and that is to cease and desist the free ride they get when they arrive.
If the conditions for them were worse for them when they got here, it would deter them from coming.
But as long as they get free medical, free education, free everything, no wall will ever stop them.
Only shoot the southbound...

· Registered
1 Posts
Get rid of the 'stinking Border Patrol", let the States patrol their own borders.

The "Border Patrol' is a corrupt organization, the DC government wants the border open, "and" what the hell are the states "Militias" doing fighting in the middle east?

That is so illegal.

I believe that now is the time for a "Revolution"!

Yeah this is my first post, so what?


· Administrator
2,746 Posts
Did you now there's a border patrol checkpoint in the valley coming off i-37 in Texas. When you pass through they force you to stop tell them were your going and whether our not your an American Citizen. I hate every time I'm coming back from the coast I have to stop and get harassed by Border Patrol Agents.
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