Religion vs Salvation

Discussion in 'Religion' started by BillM, Jan 28, 2011.

  1. BillM

    BillM BillM

    Religion vs Salvation

    All religions are flawed in that they are administered and interpreted by men.

    Salvation is dependant on, a one on one relationship with God

    I believe in the Creator, because I have a personal relationship with my Creator that I worked out between the two of us when I was 17 years old.

    I didn’t accept him, he accepted me !

    I believe, because of what happened to me. I know by personal experience that God changed something in my soul.

    What he did is unshakable, by the religions of men, or the pain of death. No man gave it and no man can wrest it from me.

    You can not obtain it by joining my church or anyone else’s church. You establish your own relationship with God and make your peace with him.

    You can not see God but once you know he is there, you can recognize his work within you and everything he has created.

    I don’t fault anyone for their unbelief in the Creator. Why should you believe in a God you have never met ?

    I was an Agnostic, I neither believed or discounted God’s existence until he troubled my soul.

    I became so troubled that I could not eat or sleep. No one could help me or ease my fear.

    I tried prayer, I talked to anyone I though could help me , and no one could.

    When I had gone as far as I could go on my own understanding and the advise of all my friends, I fell on my knees and opened up my heart. I just turned the whole matter over to God and told him I could go no further, that if he wanted to take my life to take it but to take the weight from my heart first and the fear and dread that had weighted me down, left.

    It didn’t leave gradually , it left instantly. From that point in my life, I no longer believed there was a God, I knew there was a God, and I knew he had made me and that he loved me and that is good enough for me to die with !

    I am 62 years old now and I have seen many things done in the name of God , that were the evil works of men .

    I don’t fault God for what man does .
    I recognize his work and it is always perfect.

    I have faced death many times and I no longer fear death. I know there is a loving God who waits for me on the other side.

    I met him when I was seventeen !
  2. MrSfstk8d

    MrSfstk8d Well-Known Member

    I think, He and I first met when I was five or six. Early onset Hubris in my family, lol. It was epiphany buried in a snow bank, enough said. I no longer had any fear of mortality, and haven't since, knowing the nature of the relationship between He and I.

    I suppose it must have been hard having a First Grader with no fear of death, though, LOL.

  3. Asatrur

    Asatrur Well-Known Member

    I am going to try and put this a gentle way, but why are a large number of the Monotheistic religions dependent on the attitude that it's followers are undeserving of their God's love and must trounce themselves to feel right meaning the whole salvation thing?

    That is my view of course and your mileage may vary.
  4. mosquitomountainman

    mosquitomountainman I invented the internet. :rofl:

    Several reasons: 1. God is holy. When those who are not perfect are confronted with perfection it's very humbling experience. You feel like one wh doesn't belong and can never measure up. Like a person in shabby clothes at a formal gathering you can see all eyes watching and staring and know that no matter what you try you will never measure up to those standards. 2. God is omnipotent. NO one and/or NO thing is more powerful. When one is confronted with supreme power the reaction is awe and fear. Even when that power is your friend the awe never leaves. Imagine being exposed without shelter in the path of an oncoming tornado and the total helplessness you would feel yet also the awe of the power contained in those swirling winds. God is greater by far. 3. God is omniscient. When one is confronted with an all-knowing God his own ignorance and unworthiness is obvious. It isn't just that god knows everything about creation and the universe, He also knows everything about you. Every thought, every action, every wish and fantasy. EVERYTHING! 4. God is just. He will not leave the guilty unpunished. The fear comes from the recognition that we are all guilty. No one is innocent. The realization that when you point your finger at someone else there are thre fingers pointing back at you. Not matter how evil you may think they are, you are evil too. Jesus said to hate someone in your heart is the equivalent of murdering them. 5. God is love. He has provided a way out through Jesus Christ. In accepting Him as our Lord and Savior (He is BOTH!) He paid the penalty for our sins. We become God's adopted children and share in the inheritance.

    I could write more but it's all in the first four books of the New Testament if a person will take the time to read it.

    Personally, for too many years, I was one of those who didn't see much need for God and certainly didn't feel like I deserved condemnation for my sins. I liked the idea of a god without demands who thought my sins weren't that bad. After all, I could think of people who were worse. When I finally reached the point of being ready to accept God's salvation I had entered on a search for the absolute truth about God. Like I said earlier, it wasn't logical that all of the purported "gods" were true. Logically, if you have two or more contradictory statements, one can be true and the others false or all can be false. But, they cannot all be true. If you're really seeking the truth there is no other option except the truth.

    I've got a BA in Bible Ministry but I don't understand nor can I give a great explanation of evey part of the Bible. The thing is that the parts I do understand are so overwhelmingly convincing that I don't have to understand every part of the Bible. Looking at it now there are only a couple of places that seem contradictory to me. And in light of what I do know I can lay those aside until God explains them fully when we meet face-to-face.

    I have not seen any other "religion" that makes sense to me (and I've studied a bunch of them at different times).

    They key in my opinion is to seek the truth. Contrary to what many want to believe there is only one ultimate Truth. All paths do not lead to God and like any trip, if you take the wrong path you aren't going to arrive at your intended destination.

    One other thing. "Faith" is not a religion. You can have faith in an object but the object is not "Faith." My "faith" is in Jesus Christ. Your "faith" is in .... what?
  5. MrSfstk8d

    MrSfstk8d Well-Known Member

    Good question, MN. I have a strong personal faith, but I'm not so good at religion. In my opinion (individual results may vary, consult an attourney, void in Rhode Island) I don't believe anyone is undeserving of God's love, myself included. I believe that everyone is loved by God. Well, that's the easy part. The tough part is what you DO with that love. It's my understanding that if you nurture and foster that living Love in your person, that the good you do for yourself and others is a natural expression. The classic example by the Apostle is that you cannot grow a vineyard and not expect to have grapes. But, if tending your vineyard, you find some vine that produces bad things or is diseased, cut it out.

    I don't go in for all of the self flaggelation stuff. I don't wear a crown of thorns, or whip myself in the streets. What I do believe is the idea that is usually labeled as Original Sin. I won't really argue the theology of it, but what it amounts to the same for everyone is that we are born of an imperfect stock, with flaws, and are perfectly capable of corrupting ourselves, and attempting to inflict that corruption on others, to our hearts' content. When one recognizes this, and accepts the Good parts of thier nature, though, they may become empowered to take measures to reduce (you never really do get rid of ALL the weeds in the garden) those unhealthy aspects and feed the healthy, productive parts of themselves and share the fruits that they produce.
  6. gypsysue

    gypsysue The wanderer

    Bill's thread-starting post hit the nail on the head for me, as far as it's religion/denominations that I find detestable, more than God or Christianity.

    Then there's the behavior of those professing to believe these things. If the example of those people around me who claim to be Christians, is what being a Christian is, then I pass.

    But they tell me no one is perfect, that I shouldn't judge them for their actions, that it isn't my place to do so. That might be, but it's still a poor explanation to cover for the things they say and do. :dunno:
  7. FirstActionSelfDefense

    FirstActionSelfDefense Always Learning

    I watched a documentary once which explained how all religeons and relegious figures are actually talking about the sun and astrological events. 'The sun of god' is actually the sun. The '3 kings' is orions belt, which lead to the sun of god (if you follow orions belt it leads you to sun rise or sunset or something like that) etc etc.

    If you research alot of religeons, including those of the ancient egyptians etc (compare horris to jesus) youll find the facts in the stories are very, very similiar. ie the bible, and religeous figures etc are just ways in which the stories have been passed on.. as a way to remember the stories. It has just been taken out of context, and/or used by the government as a good way to control society.

    Im not saying religeon is a bad thing, but its just something to think about

    On a different note, I've never been religious, but I know I make alot better moral decision than many religious people out there.
  8. BillM

    BillM BillM

    Innocent or guilty /

    When God created the world and all creatures in the world, he gave each creature differing attributes and abilities.

    Yet, man is held accountable for sin, while other creatures are not .

    This would only seem fair if God gave man some superior attribute to rise above the animals.

    Some men say it is our intelligence but one would only have to look at the navigational and communicational ability of whales to dispute that we are more intelligent. We just have a different type of intelligence.

    An Eagle sees far better than we do and travels faster.

    The Lion is more ferocious.

    I could go on and on with animal examples of superior traits.

    So , I am led to believe that our superior status of abilities has nothing to do with our ability to sin and be accountable to God for our sin.

    I can find only one thing that man has, that animals do not have.

    When God created all creatures , including Man he gave them all a nature specific to their species. If they follow that nature they commit no sin. When a Lion kills a man or another Lion, he has not sinned but has acted in accordance with the nature God gave him and thus has done Gods will.

    We have a nature to survive that leads us to obtain food shelter clothing ,security and to propagate our species. We have opportunistic traits, that will urge us to steal , murder and breed indiscriminately to effect these driven goals.

    But herein lies the differing factor, God gave Man and Man alone the ability to rise above his own nature and in this respect he is like unto God and unlike any other creature God created. In short we have a choice. Animals do not and are therefor unable to sin.

    It is sin to Man when he reaches the age when he questions the existence of the Creator but chooses to rely only on nature and never seek out God within him self.

    Recognizing God , requires us to go against our own inherent nature and seek a higher power.

    It requires us to have laws that control our natural urges. We have the responsibility to be like God.

    This is why when the Priests asked Jesus if he was the Son of God, He replied , " Know Ye not that Ye are the Sons of God ?"
  9. Alienhomicide

    Alienhomicide New Member

    In your religious affiliation isn't there no one God?:scratch just asking if you don't mind.
  10. Asatrur

    Asatrur Well-Known Member

    Nope, we are Polytheistic, which means believing in more than one god. we honor the Norse pantheon of Odin, Thor, Freja, etc.
  11. Homestead Gal

    Homestead Gal Proverbs31Woman

    I myself worship only one God. The God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. His Hebrew name is Yahweh or some say Yahusha. My messiah's Hebrew name is Yahushua. It was a very powerful spiritual moment when I began to pray and study using the names that the early believers used when they prayed and studied our Heavenly Father's instructions (TORAH).

    For almost 2 years now, I've been Torah Observant and it has been an amazing blessing to me and my family. I grew up in church but never really understood anything other then how to gain my spiritual salvation. When I began to study from the front of the Bible and read/study from the beginning of the book, I gained greater understanding in what I was reading. I now have a personal, spiritual relationship with my YAH and Messiah that for years I was lacking. Now, I can honestly say I love my life and the blessing that obedience to my Heavenly Father's word brings. YAH is GOOD!!!
  12. Davo45

    Davo45 New here

    +1 Amen!

    Amen Brother. Well said. As the late C.S. Lewis wrote in Mere Christianity, "Jesus Christ can only be one of three things, he was either a lunatic, a liar or He is just what He claimed to be, The LORD."