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There is a place in Hell for me...the THRONE.
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I got this today in my email box. What are your thoughts? Well, what are they if we can have an adult discussion without resorting to name calling...

Refugees And Responsibility: Christian Compassion in an Age of War
by Matthew Jacobson

http://matthewljacobson.com/2015/11/19/syrian-refugee-an-age-of-war/

The Syrian Refugees, what's to be done with them? Should we let them in or should we keep them out?

Nothing raises the temperature in the room as when the hard-edged realist meets the sanctimonious piety of the liberal Christian who shows up with her smiley-face emoticon and a "Jesus Loves You!" bumper sticker.

The first person justifies his lack of compassion by saying he's just trying to bring order to this mad world as the second looks down with a moral squint from the high ground she has convinced herself she, Jesus, and a few other good people occupy.

Such is the current discussion among believers sparked by the Syrian Refugee crisis. KEEP THEM OUT! . . . We MUST LET THEM IN. IT'S WHAT JESUS WOULD DO!

The default position of every true believer is already delineated in the Bible. It's not complicated. It's not unclear. There is simply no place for a lack of compassion in the life of a believer; witness the story of The Rich Man and Lazarus or the declaration of James 1:7, regarding orphans and widows. 'Compassionate' is the heart condition of a true believer who walks in the Spirit.

So, compassion or the lack thereof, isn't really the issue. If you have no compassion, well, good luck in the latter day, explaining the logic of your position to God. At least you'll have time on your hands and Lazarus close by to listen to your well-honed arguments.

Applying the compassion every true believer has is where the real crux of the discussion about these - or any - refugees lay. But striving for a truly biblical position is different than the moral sniff of so many Christians who savage logic and biblical truth in the name of loving people.

Breathe one hint of evaluation of who among the refugees should be let in or excluded from admission to the U.S. and like the Victorian schoolmarm with her whalebone corset pulled two notches too tight, scurrying to the desk of the disruptive student, Christians suddenly appear, reprimanding, with expressions of disbelief that anyone - anyone - could possibly be so (cold, callous, uninformed, unchristian, bigoted, racist, xenophobic . . . pick a favorite).

I'm just ashamed of you! How could you? Where's the love?

You see, you're just supposed to love, which means, see it my way, let these people in without another word of discussion or you are a judgmental, unkind, unchristian, unloving, mean (pick another one) person.

And, really, who can argue with love like that?

This brand of Christian compassion may make that whalebone corset feel less uncomfortable but it has nothing, whatever, to do with what the Bible teaches or with an understanding of biblical principles.

Whenever a discussion begins, every Christian has one starting place. Christians who desire to influence others to their position or who challenge the ideas of others can only do so, legitimately, if they align their argument with what the Bible teaches. Granted, people can see things the Bible teaches differently, but that's where reason and mature discourse come in.

In His Word, God says, Come, let us reason together, Isaiah 1:18. That's interesting, isn't it - God, inviting us to a logical discussion?

Reason - biblical reason - is what is needed in the acrimonious debate over the placement of the Refugees. To reason, to consider facts, to assess risk, to guard yourself, your children and your neighbor against terrorists, does not reveal a lack of compassion. It's Biblical.

But first, we need to light a straw man on fire and burn him to ashes. The very idea that refugees shouldn't be welcomed into this country, period, is a straw man used to "prove" a lack of compassion on one side and genuine love and concern on the other.

No doubt there are people, somewhere who believe no refugees should be admitted to the U.S., ever - that they should shift for themselves as best they can. This position is manifestly unbiblical. We are our brother's keeper and are called on to meet the needs of the destitute. Jesus' account in Matthew 25 removes any grey from the topic. So, get the matches. This straw man is going up in flames.

And yet, the same ardent tone leveled against the Straw Man is used against those who argue for the vetting of refugees. They are accused, right along with the straw man, of being racists, bigots, fear-driven etc., etc.

A moral squint does not an argument make - at least an argument that will hold up to logical . . . and biblical scrutiny. Those against vetting the refugees (making as definitive assessment of their intentions as possible) have lost their capacity to think biblically, and are being driven by their emotions.

When truth dominates love, judgment follows but when love dominates truth, chaos follows.

Vetting people we do not know prior to making them our neighbors is neither unkind, unloving, or any of the epithets hurled against those who advocate the process. Vetting unknown people is logical, reasonable, responsible, and a very loving thing to do for the neighbor you already have. But, it's more than that. Vetting is a biblical practice. In fact, the Bible teaches you should vet people for a variety of things.

Many different kinds of vetting were commonly practiced in both the Old and New Testaments. Check out Joshua 9 where vetting foreigners miscarried and two men, posing as refugees on the brink of destitution, deceived the border guards and tricked Joshua into a treaty with their enemies.

In the Church of the 1st Century, the commitment to care for the destitute was unquestioned, but showing up and declaring oneself a widow or looking needy was not enough for admittance to the Church's welfare program. First, you were vetted. What were the criteria?

The woman must be over 60 years of age
She must have no children (It is the family's responsibility to care for family members)
She must have led a life of caring for others

By today's bleeding-heart standards, this is tantamount to waterboarding. But, no, these are the standards set down for the love and care of those who were widows, indeed. For the rest of the women who sought admission to the Church's welfare program: Sorry. We vetted you, and you don't qualify for admission.

So for all those who decry the vetting of refugees, please tone down your moral outrage and recognize, your unqualified compassion isn't Christian or biblical, regardless of the endorphin rush it gives you.

Without question, there are people who need help. And, for those who, after being vetted, are found to be truly destitute, Christian compassion dictates the response.

With the mass migration out of the Middle East, it is an exercise worthy of the most committed ostrich to suggest as fear mongering the concern over terrorists being among them. If terrorists are smart enough to bring down the World Trade Center, surely they're smart enough to realize the Syrian Refugee Crisis is a golden opportunity to slip unnoticed into enemy territory.

Happily, we don't have to wonder how smart terrorists are. Along with those who truly need help are also those who pose as those who need help, like this guy: Tunisian terrorist 'returns to Europe posing as asylum-seeker'

And . . .

The Syrians arrested yesterday in Honduras, heading to the U.S. on stolen Greek passports who, when asked what they were doing traveling north through Central America responded, in fairly good English, "Refugees". Interpol tracked these strong, able-bodied men from Syria, through Lebanon, Turkey, Brazil, Argentina, Costa Rica, and Honduras, where they were arrested, preventing the rest of the trip: Guatemala, Mexico, and through the porous U.S. border (smart guys!). Turns out, they're far from refugees but they don't have terrorist ties, apparently. Now, if the guys who just want to sneak into the U.S. on stolen passports can figure out that posing as Syrian refugees is helpful to your goals, do you still wonder if the terrorists are smart enough to figure it out?

Stop wondering and read about . . .

The eight terrorists arrested in Turkey, posing as refugees.

And this is the material point, it's beyond foolish to tell yourself that mass migration of the scope seen throughout Europe, from a terrorist riddled region, would not include terrorists using refugee status for cover.

Vetting these people is the only Christian, Biblical, circumspect course of action. What's more, it is the compassionate thing to do - the only way Truth and Love can remain in proper balance to each other . . . under the circumstances . . . based on the facts.

Come, let us reason together.
 

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Well said, and thoughtfully constructed argument.

I don't believe that every Muslim is a jihadist at heart any more than I believe that the Christians who bombed/burned abortion clinics represent my Christian perspective either.

Before marrying, my future wife and I took a pilgrimage to Texas to introduce each other to the families. We have both family in the Denton area, San Antonio, and Amarillo vicinity. After a long day of driving, in a pickup without air conditioning, we arrived at her Grandmothers house, who for historical sake, was a very solid Church of Christ attendee. My wife, after the obligatory introductions and hugs, immediately retreated to the shower to be presentable.

Now, I was born and raised Catholic, re-baptised a Baptist, and was currently attending an Independent Methodist church. When my wife returned, her Grandmother and I were in a very in depth discussion of religion, which I later found out was a taboo subject with Grandma. We had already covered politics, so she missed out on that one!

I've been on both sides of the coin, in both political and religious views. I've found that using my intellect and my heart in conjunction usually gets the best results. I've also found that when someone decides to violate that trust, that swift and violent retribution takes care of the problem.

I'll be reasonable if you will... Just Sayin...
 

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I for one feel no responsibility towards a people whose stated mission is to kill me and my fellow Americans, a people who describe western civilization as the great Satan, and have vowed to bring America to her knees.
That being said, I also understand that not every muslim is a Jihadist, but as has been pointed out before, 25% of muslims are Jihadists, and I have no way of telling the difference. Therefore I choose to suspect all, I've been burned by smiling faces way to often, and if my position makes me unchristian, then so be it.
 

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Beyond the religious mish-mash of rational; the real fruit in the article imo is a common sense approach to ‘vetting’ refugees as a matter of course (God did give us common sense ya know). Though sadly the success of the vetting process is much more easily said than done given the myriad of variables and factors involved in moving that process forward at a steady pace. There is no easy reconciling the matter in what for many is a gut wrenching tug of war between the heart and the mind, especially where children are concerned. God help us all:brickwall:
 

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P.S.

https://twitter.com/natnewswatch?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

"As many as 900 Syrian refugees could land each day in Toronto and Montreal starting as early as Dec. 1, according to a government document obtained by CTV News.

"Operation Syrian Refugees" shows the majority of the Syrians will come from camps in Lebanon, Jordan and perhaps Turkey.
The refugees will fly out of Amman, Jordan, beginning as early as Dec. 1, at rate of up to 900 per day or 6,300 per week."

The article goes on to give a description of the vetting process, by whom and how.

Well we're in the soup now so let's hope and pray the vetting process is nice and tight.
 

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My church has come out publicly and said to welcome them. Tough one to swallow. I think it could be written better, but this is about how I felt. I wish we could pull all the good people out of Syria, nuke it, and send them back. But I know it does not work like that. The bad are already leaving with the good to get past the security and carry out their plans. ImageUploadedBySurvival Forum1448000179.377348.jpg
 

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I for one feel no responsibility towards a people whose stated mission is to kill me and my fellow Americans, a people who describe western civilization as the great Satan, and have vowed to bring America to her knees.
That being said, I also understand that not every muslim is a Jihadist, but as has been pointed out before, 25% of muslims are Jihadists, and I have no way of telling the difference. Therefore I choose to suspect all, I've been burned by smiling faces way to often, and if my position makes me unchristian, then so be it.
Perfect statement! I'll talk to God about my unchristian thoughts directed towards muslims later.
 

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Cowboy
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The story concerns a farmer who finds a viper freezing in the snow. Taking pity on it, he picks it up and places it within his coat. The viper, revived by the warmth, bites his rescuer, who dies realizing that it is his own fault.

The farmer dies reproaching himself "for pitying a scoundrel,"

The snake says that he bit his benefactor "to teach the lesson not to expect a reward from the wicked. Did you not know that there is enmity and natural antipathy between your kind and mine? Did you not know that a serpent in the bosom, a mouse in a bag and fire in a barn give their hosts an ill reward?"
 

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Something else to consider, throughout the history of this nation the people that came here of their own free will came here to be Americans. They learned the language, loved our country & built empires. That's not so true anymore, I've met people that have lived here for thirty years that can't speak english. I've seen the Mexican flag flown above the American flag. There are places in America where enclaves of people from other countries gather & keep to themselves with no intention of assimilating to our way of life. Does anybody think tens of thousands of Syrians being dumped over here give a rats rear about being American? I'm guessing Sharia law is more in line with their ideology. Not to mention there's no way to vet any of these people. I like the idea of a safe zone in Syria, why aren't the men fighting to save their own country anyway?
 

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People have lost their minds. MOST Syrians support Sharia law & agree with much of what the terrorists do. That is the norm over there. Bringing the problem over here only spreads the misery, it does nothing to change it. I'm all for letting the liberals have their way though, so no one need have a stroke telling me how prejudice & bigoted I am. There's a way to address everyone's concerns. The solution is to allow the cities & states who want the "refugees" to have them. Let's start at the Whitehouse, move the refugees in there. Put the secret service on the outside & allow the refugees to freely mingle with the president's family. Lead by example. Allow them to have all of the clockmaking supplies they want, I'll even donate the money for them. Next, turn them loose in the cities & states that want them. We have locating ankle bracelets we put on certain criminals, put those on the refugees so they cannot leave those cities or states to appease the paranoid. Now, if there are bombings, shoot ups, or other death & destruction incidents courtesy of the refugees, the funds to clean up the mess, tend to the injured, etc. will be paid for ONLY by those in favor of having the refugees here because we're all adults & take full responsibility for our choices. It's way past time for a thinning of the herd & these refugees may very well be our opportunity to get it done. :surrender:
 

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I have thought of this for days. The only response I can think of is ...

WWJD??

Would Jesus expect us to bring the devil into our homes??
 

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Well, I think we should do what Americans do best and help but it is no help to take these people away from their homelands... We can set them up over there easier than we can bring some here... Just saying...
 

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How many refugees is Saudi Arabia taking? How many refugees is Iraq taking? How about Iran? How about Turkey? Russia? Kazakhstan China? Pakistan?

Am I the only one who thinks this whole thing is a set up to invade us and then twist and turn it around?

Am I the only one who sees so many more men than women and children and wonders what is up with that?

It seems to be such a set up, and so many people keep posting this stupid poor people things on facebook and what is wrong with us if we think they are going to kill us?

I am a person that has little trust in anything and this just says set up to me. Anyone else see the cartoon with the Trojan horse?

There may be refugees, but there are countries that are much more in line with their culture, beliefs, and way of dealing with each other. Let someone else ante up for a change.
 

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Resto
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My church has come out publicly and said to welcome them. Tough one to swallow. I think it could be written better, but this is about how I felt. I wish we could pull all the good people out of Syria, nuke it, and send them back. But I know it does not work like that. The bad are already leaving with the good to get past the security and carry out their plans. View attachment 12819
Have you found another Church? Sounds like that one has compromised. WWJD? Ill tell you what Hes gonna do. Rev 19 vs 21. These people are not "Refugees", stop calling them that. They are Fighting age Men. Send them back to fight.
 

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In the opening scene of Fiddler on the Roof (1971), the rabbi’s son asks: “Is there a proper blessing for the tsar?” The rabbi responds: “A blessing for the tsar?” He ponders awhile, then pronounces: “Of course . . . May God bless and keep the tsar . . . far away from us!”
 

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My duty is to my family, my friends, and my country. Being nice to some random refugee is way down on the list. Bringing some jihadi into my neighborhood, or yours, or even taking that risk, doesn't even factor in.

barry says he has ISIS under control, a few hours later Paris happens. barry says Americans are afraid of widows, a few hours later a woman straps a bomb on and blows herself up. Every time we are told our cautions are unreasonable some moslem or group of moslems does something horrendous.

These people don't want to assimilate into our society they want to implement their society upon us. Why is it that the moslem countries don't want them?
 

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I love the smell of Argon in the morning
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Am I the only one who thinks this whole thing is a set up to invade us and then twist and turn it around?

Am I the only one who sees so many more men than women and children and wonders what is up with that?

It seems to be such a set up, and so many people keep posting this stupid poor people things on facebook and what is wrong with us if we think they are going to kill us?

I am a person that has little trust in anything and this just says set up to me. Anyone else see the cartoon with the Trojan horse?

There may be refugees, but there are countries that are much more in line with their culture, beliefs, and way of dealing with each other. Let someone else ante up for a change.
Al-Qaida put together a terrorist hand book of ways to defeat the west. The plan was to cause a public panic in some third world country and cause a large refugee horde to head to Europe and the US. Inside that horde they would infiltrate their own terrorists to get into the streets of whatever country and then disappear into the neighborhoods only to attack from within.

Al-Qaida knew this would work because of the wests liberal Christian guilt softness would let the hordes into their countries with little or no background checks.

This terrorist handbook was discovered by a special forces raid and was found with other secret training documents. Al-Qaida wrote this but it would be common sense that ISIS could be using it now.

When I first heard about this I was working for DHS and am not aware if the public was ever informed or if the public had access to read it.

If I was ISIS, I would be taking advantage of this whether I planned it or not. I can guarantee that there are terrorist entering this country as refugees for the purpose of launching attacks. The attacks could be in a week, a month, or a year. The biggest mistake that the US is making is assuming that ISIS is stupid. ISIS is much smarter then the administration of this country. It will happen.

It will be difficult to connect the dots to ISIS, but in some cases it will be blamed on gang violence or lone wolf attacks.
 

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The perfect plan... As plans go...

I think I might have come up with the perfect plan for welcoming Muslims hospitably to our country.

In the interest of everyone involved, I propose that we resettle them to the National Desert Training Center. It's very much like their homeland, and we could employ them as the OPFOR for the units that have to train to go back over there and kill the hadji's. We'll give them simunitions and the obligatory party popper suicide vests and belts, and they can protest all day, every day, against the imperialist Americans. Talk about realism! Shoot, we probably don't even need to install running water...

If they get tired of getting shot back at, or just get homesick, we can ship them back with a one way ticket.
 

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I don't understand how Atheists can tell Christians what the Christian response should ?!

WWJD?

The commandment "Thou shalt not kill" is really not as general as the King James version would indicate. The commandment actually refers to premeditated, unjustified killing - murder. Although God ordered the extermination of entire cities, He did so in righteous judgment on a people whose corruption had led to extreme wickedness, including child sacrifice. Did God destroy the righteous along with the wicked? In an exchange with Abraham, God indicated that He would spare the wicked to save the righteous. He demonstrated this principle by saving righteous people from Sodom and Jericho prior to their destruction.
 

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This is an over five minute video about the moslem overtake of one european city. It is not a unique story. I spent a few months in Gibraltar around the turn of the century. A common complaint of the people from around the EU was moslems coming into their country and immediately signing up for handouts.

http://www.cbn.com/tv/embedplayer.aspx?bcid=1509282970001
 
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