Prisons... after TSHTF

Discussion in 'General Survival Discussion' started by gypsysue, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. gypsysue

    gypsysue The wanderer

    This question was raised in another thread (SHTF shopping trip). The concern was raised by someone who has prisons within 50 miles of their home.

    What about prisons and jails? What will become of the prsioners if TSHTF? Will they be released? Left to starve? ??? :dunno:

    I know that not all prisoners are violent, but what about those that are? There are some pretty hard cases locked away. Imagine if they were all turned loose?
  2. TheAnt

    TheAnt Aesops Ant (not Aunt)

    Although at first glance this scares the heck out of most of us we should all realize that there is a larger population OUTSIDE of prison that poses a threat than the population currently inside them.

  3. kyhoti

    kyhoti Member

    I actually wouldn't mind scoping out a prison as a rather defensible location. After the current residents move out, of course. And I too am more concerned with John Q. Public going rabid than I am about a bunch of criminals. The mob is a waaaaay scarier beast.
  4. Davarm

    Davarm Texan

    We live within about 10 miles from a medium security prison, I would think that if they are let out(or escape), the inmates would unass the area and get as far away as possible. They probably would not realize that sometimes the best place to hide is right out in the open under the noses of those they are hiding from.

    I'm with the bunch that is more afraid of the "rabid population outside of the prison", or better yet, those who let them out.
  5. Claymore5150

    Claymore5150 Appalachian American

    Wesley-Rawles seems to think they will eventually be let out when they can no longer be properly fed, according to "Patriots".
    Maybe a month post-fan, could be less, could be more.

    The big issues within "The System" are multiple. If the power grid fails, they won't have enough fuel to run their generators for very long.
    The guards have a "Force Multiplier" with the camera systems within the jails and prisons. If those fail, you have to add 3-5 more personnel per pod/block/floor.
    A lot of the inner gates are electronically controlled from a central guard house. If you can't buzz in and out, things will get dicey.

    If there is a water shortage or complete failure, hygiene will be non-existent and disease will spread rapidly within "the walls".

    Food...there are one or two, maybe a few prisons that raise their own livestock and do their own gardening. That's a very small minority of incarcerated people, though.
    LA county jail probably houses more prisoners on a daily basis than the ones that are somewhat self-supported. I can't see Los Angeles County moving into the countryside so they can provide their own food.

    Considering that big county jails like LA County house 19000 inmates on a daily basis, yes 19 THOUSAND inmates, they cannot possibly expect to maintain security without their force multipliers, food, and water.

    They only have two options...
    Let them out
    Leave them locked up to starve/disease them out

    Stats on wikipedia (we know how that goes, but it was easily found, how accurate? not sure) state that....
    "In 2008 approximately one in every 31 adults (7.3 million) in the United States was behind bars, or being monitored (probation and parole)"

    "In addition, there were 86,927 held in juvenile facilities as of the 2007 Census of Juveniles in Residential Placement (CJRP), conducted by the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention.[12][13]" (Different year study, but an idea of number of under 18 behind bars).

    Essentially 3% (give or take) of the ADULT population is incarcerated based on the numbers from 2009.

    Not only are there that many, but a good portion of them are known to be "gang" affiliated. There are a bunch that are NOT yet "known" to be affiliated, yet probably are. Essentially that means is the bad guys run in packs, in the jails or not, and they don't care about the consequences of going into the penal system to begin with, so think of how they'll feel if they get let OUT and there is NO MORE CHANCE OF BEING LOCKED UP?

    In essence, there's gonna be wild and crazy "somewhat normal" folk out there going haywire because it hit the fan, and then we'll have to add in the MZB's from the incarcerated 3% of the population (which does NOT include the under 18 thugs who either haven't been caught yet or dropped off the radar when they turned 18.

    How's THAT for warm and fuzzy?
  6. TimB

    TimB Member

    Thanks. :eek: Like I didn't have enough to worry about. :( ;) :D
    Seriously, I never even thought about it. Local county jails (several are huge) plus a Federal Pen in Atlanta. Something to consider... :sssh:

  7. horseman1946

    horseman1946 Well-Known Member

    :wave:I was the one that posted the question about the prisons. Claymore gave some good info, and seeing as how we are somewhat close to each other location wise, we probably have the same prisoners to worry about. One of the prisons here is Virginia's Super-Max (Red Onion Mountain), seems like they have an inmate murder each year. The prisoners there are mostly lifers, with no chance of parole.

    I think most inmates, if not all, would be turned loose to fend for themselves. One reason for thinking that, I can't see the guards leaving their families to fend for themselves while they stay on the job. Remember Katrina, and the NOPD and NOFD reactions.
  8. goatlady

    goatlady Well-Known Member

    horseman, you might want to re-think your reasoning. If/when the prison guards leave their posts or do not show up for work why would you think they would release the prisoners who they have been guarding and watching, and knowing for years? Those guards live in the vacinity of the prison as do their families, and I guarantee you those guards do NOT want those men turned loose in their family neighborhoods especially the rapists and murderers and child abusers. There really is NO safe or sane solution, it will happen as it happens.
  9. horseman09

    horseman09 Well-Known Member

    If we can believe the media, many if not most prisons have some pretty hardcore gangs.

    If they were either released or if they bashed down the walls to escape, it seems likely the gangs would retain much of their structure which would mean ready-made, very violent squad or platoon size bad guys with lots of experience with violence sans conscience.

    Ugly. Very ugly.
  10. NaeKid

    NaeKid YourAdministrator, eh?

    I did a quick-check from my place to some of the nearest correctional facilities and the closest is about 50km. Walking-distance of almost 10hrs according to GoogleMaps. There is another one that is about 60km away and GoogleMaps says walking time is about 11hrs.

    I did a quick 'net search and found that in 1908, President T. Roosevelt wanted the military-boys to train to walk 50 miles. He figured that 3 days would be just fine and that most wouldn't be able to do it in the time allotted, but, some did it in a day.

    24hrs to walk 50 miles.

    What kind of shape do you think a prisioner would be in to walk 50 miles? What kind of shape would they be in if they knocked on your door after walking 50 miles? All you would see is someone who is exhausted and could be pushed-over by a feather. How will you know that they have been released from prison, especially if there are no "visible signs" like prison-tattoos or prison-issued clothing? Unless they tell you that they left prison, they will look like someone who was just dragged through the wringer and tossed out to dry.

    I would think that if one knocked on your door, you will be filled with compassion more than loathing .... until you find out why they were in prison in the first place.

    If you haven't watched the movie "Last house on the left", you will not know what I mean by my next statement.

    You will take a person at their word, you will trust that they are as honest as you are. They will gain entrance to your home and you will realize that it is too late. You will be forced to make some serious decisions quickly. What you choose is something that you will have to live with for the rest of your life ...
  11. CulexPipiens

    CulexPipiens Still waiting for the zombies.

    Unless they're turned loose with a bag of MRE's, they would be starting out with pretty much nothing. If we're already well into a SHTF, then most "unclaimed" resources (convenience stores, etc) will probably have already been looted so with no food or water the majority of them have 2-3 days at best until they get to the desperate point and maybe a week until most will probably be too weak to continue. Sure there will be a number that is smart enough to make it but I would think a relatively small percentage of the original amount.

    I also agree with goatlady... why would the guards open the doors knowing that now they'll have to deal with these people in their community. Turn the lights off, leave the doors locked and abandoning them is more likely.
  12. UncleJoe

    UncleJoe Well-Known Member

    I don't remember which one, probably one of Jerry D. Young's, but one of the PAW fiction stories I read addressed this. A group went to see what had happened to a local prison population and found the compound empty. They then proceeded to set it up as their new home base.
  13. Emerald

    Emerald Well-Known Member

    I live with in 15 miles of several major prisons. I have often thought about this. one of the minimum ones is now closed and hubby said (with a chuckle) that it would be a great place to stave off the zombie hoards. plenty of room for growing inside the fencing and with greenhouses and if you were smart enuf to put up solar and wind turbines.. you may be able to make a great strong hold.

    I just checked and there are 5 in that one town.. plus the county lock up. plus one of the prisons is for criminally insane.. yea skippy..:eek:
  14. BillM

    BillM BillM

    If government

    If the government is overthrown or inactive, the prisoners will all empty out.

    In every sociaty where revolution or insolvency of government has occured , the prisons are opened up and the inmates walk free.
  15. gypsysue

    gypsysue The wanderer

    Well, I for one am glad that I don't live near any prisons. The nearest county lock-up is 65 miles away. The nearest actual prison is over 200 miles away. I'm amazed at how many of you calmly say it's not a big deal to release them, that it'll probably happen, and that the outside masses will be more dangerous. I disagree.

    If you really know what those guys in the MaxSec prisons are like you wouldn't want them released anywhere, let alone within a few days' walking distance from your home. If you think the sheeple are going to be panicked and dangerous, wait and see what these prison gangs will do. They don't have the same moral compass as the sheeple. I know hunger and fear can drive violence, but I think I'd rather face the scared masses than the hardened prison gangs. (Though I hope not to face either!)

    It's interesting to read everyone's opinions, and I hope you keep posting them even though my opinion is different from some of you.

    But no one seems to know what the protocol is. Surely prison management people have discussed such things? I realize that if TSHTF it might be hard to enforce or enact the previously made plans, since guards and other employees might stop showing up for work (possibly abruptly, and I can't blame them).

    I'm more and more grateful for where I live. Some of you really have some serious stuff in your areas, and not just prisons. You're braver than I am.
  16. TimB

    TimB Member

    It just occurred to me that my daughters future father-in-law is retired from the Federal Prison system (former Warden). Next time I see him, I'll bring it up and see what he thinks would happen or if there are protocols for it.

  17. Fiona

    Fiona Active Member

    I agree with Horseman - these inmates already have a society they belong to inside the walls. They already know the best way to protect oneself is to join with others. They'll be scouring the neighborhoods outside the prison as they walk wherever they're going, pillaging, pilfering and generally taking whatever (and possibly whomever) they want. They also "respect" firearms, esp when they're on the barrel end of one. They will avoid houses with many and various visible protection packages showing through windows etc. We have 3 dogs and firearms. We live THISCLOSE to the road in front of our farm. Each one of my kids will be on the upper levels of the house w/weapons pointed out the windows, saying "Howdy". That's my hope anyway!
  18. Claymore5150

    Claymore5150 Appalachian American

    Another thing to think about is that a lot of the guys IN the system are in some of the best "shape" physically that they can be in.

    All they do is work out and walk around the yard, maybe play some ball. They have nothing better to do than hit the weight pile and walk around.

    If they're locked up in their cell for 23hrs, I'm betting a good many of them knock out at least a couple hundred pushups, pullups, situps, etc. just to beat the boredom.

    I'm a hardcore prisoner, in good shape, HUNGRY because there hasn't been much to eat. They open my cage, my first priority is some clothes so I don't stick out like a sore thumb and then get some food...any house within 5 miles of that place is gonna get ransacked FAST.

    Also keep in mind that these guys are VERY adept and resourceful at making something from nothing. They can boil water with a spark, a roll of TP, and a plastic bottle, perfectly, EVERY time.
    They don't need a knife or a gun, they create weapons out of EVERYTHING.
    They will run in packs just like they do on the yard. Strength in numbers.

    I can't wait to hear what TimB finds out from his in-law. That should be some interesting info.

    I wouldn't doubt that they don't really HAVE a plan for such a thing. MOST people don't THINK about it like we do.
  19. TechAdmin

    TechAdmin Administrator Staff Member

    I would imagine like many they would be reliant on family and friends and attempt to return to their place of origination.

    I'm a few miles from a low security (mainly drug offenders) prison and I have no concerns that they are more violent than any other hungry scared person.
  20. jjwilson72000

    jjwilson72000 Active Member

    Depends on the prison. Most County Jails don't hold long term (violent) offenders. If I was anywhere near a state or federal prison I would be concerned.

    Like someone else said they are probably in the best shape of their life, are resourceful, and already have a pack hierarchy.

    If I saw a group of jumpsuits approaching my property I would be much more likely to shoot first instead of offering aid.