[SurviveNthrive]

While this verges on a rant, it's more about what will probably be our source of problems in any natural disaster-'other' people. While some, or even the majoritiy won't be a problem, there will be some out there who will cause everyone difficulties.


In Washington, we had some uncommon but not rare, low temps following a light snow but it came down fast. For example, we went into a building and came out maybe 30 minutes later and there was a inch and a half on what had been merely slick asphalt...but it mostly stopped. Instantly we had problems, mostly from public transport. We saw where a bus slammed into a pick up and put it into a concrete wall, and we turned just shy of where a bus flipped onto it's side with twelve injuries. People abandoned their vehicles in the middle of the street and on the side of the road on hills. Having lived in other parts of the country, this area has many people who don't know how to drive in the snow! The roads, in many cases, aren't made for snow. The DOT is always reactive, not proactive.

It was a mess!

What is wrong with people?

I can see this happening in a natural disaster, when things really count because I'm seeing it now when there's minor problems.

People will go out when they shouldn't. They will run lights when scared. They will freeze up from a little slide and simply sit in an intersection and not procede. They will make a turn and just stop. They will try to drive with frosted up windows and snow on their windshields. They will rush trying to make up time. They will slow or stop unnecessarily on a slick hill.

I've driven in Upstate New York during white outs. Everything is fine if folks keep moving, but they will often panic and simply stop on the road rather than get off the road to stop. It happens here with less going on. Even through I've experience driving in this stuff, there are trips that aren't worthwhile. You'll see people who can't drive going out to do stupid unnecessary things.

In a natural disaster, like many suburban and rural folks, I want to get away from other people.


I'm trying to anticipate some of their behaviors in other situations.

If you've got some other examples of silly or panic behaviors to worry about in a natural disaster, please share them.

I think it was in Portland where a guy set himself on fire. A female officer grabbed a canister from her trunk and sprayed the guy down while others did the same. Later an other officer found an empty RIOT OC DISPENSOR on the ground. In her panic, this supposedly trained woman grabbed a black cylinder with a red label instead of a red cylinder with a white label and emptied it on a self immolated guy! Totally different handle, totally different spray pattern, yet she did it. This can happen even with trained folks.

 

[pdx210]

I know what you mean….I was driving back from Bend Oregon to Portland a few years back I was near Barlow @by Mt Hood. This was the end of September and an early snow storm hit.

1st helped an older 50’-60’s couple get their Honda accord unstuck and turned around…no chains, traction gear, road flairs, food, first aid kit, no winter clothing..nothing !

2nd jacked knifed full size ford with trailer into a ditch on a blind corner stopped and put out road flairs I always carry a dozen + not able to help him out much with my truck!

Then I came to a point where all traffic was stopped 30-50 vehicles some pulled to the side of the road and some simply stopped haphazardly right in the middle of the road on a pass in the middle of nowhere? Semi-trucks, passenger cars, even 4x4 suv’s and a bus. I realized all these people where scared and stopped just like cattle parked on an exposed ridge in the snow waiting for someone to do something for them.
After scouting ahead I found a spot where I could get by the cluster F and continue on it was one of the oddest things I’ve ever seen

 

[Tirediron]

You don't need bad weather or a disaster for people to be a problem, The rediculus actions of people have lead to more problems for others than nature.
the over zelous litigation game , the relativley new "saftey"bussiness pandering to the stupidest denominator. All of the acronumed gov. departments .

add some weather

 

[catsraven]

Iv lived all over the US. Up state and down state NY to Michigan to Ill, Co, Tn, AZ, NM,TX and have been in just about every State in the Union. Some people think that just because you can you should. Yes you can drive 60 or more miles an hour on the highway, BUT there is an inch of ice on that highway. Should you drive 60? Or 40, 30? No you should be at home!

I drove a truck for many years and I would not drive in really bad weather. Its just to dangerous. Yes it was boring sitting around a truck stop but I would rather be bored than dead.

Most people do not know how to drive in rain let alone snow and/or ice. I could tell you stories that would make your skin.. well you know. People are in to much of a hurry to get to where they are going to think about how bad the weather really is. If the weather is that bad stay at home. Unless your job is clearing the roads.

 

[iouJC]

Tell it to my bosses....I am a Clinical Social Worker, yet am REQUIRED to come in when there is snow and ice on the road to help deal with dialysis patients. What am I going to do....counsel them about being cold??? The medical staff often does not even come in, yet they want me to come in even if they don't and they live right there in town, while I am 30 miles away! The last time it snowed very much, they treated 4 patients out of
54; the patients aren't stupid....they stayed home!!

 

[SurviveNthrive]

Unfortunately, I'm one of those who have been identified as needing to be in places, and I've been in jobs like that since 18!~

The really sucky thing is in some job categories if you don't show, you get charged leave even though others in other job categories are exempt!

 

[SaskBound]

It is this very issue that has me convinced that there will be no last-minute runs to the store when TSHTF. If it's that bad, I won't be the only one to recognize it, and I just cannot imagine trying to deal with panicked drivers, panicked shoppers, panicked bank line-ups, and so forth. In fact, this is the best single argument for always being as ready as you can possibly manage, with food, water, meds, ammo, and cash, plus at least half a tank of gas at all times...

 

[catsraven]

Sorry about the rant. Its just one of my biggest pet peeves. Yes people will be the biggest problem. People get crazy even in the best weather. When SHTF they will be worse than even the worst storm could produce. If that makes sense.

 

[pdx210]

Some people think that just because you can you should. Yes you can drive 60 or more miles an hour on the highway, BUT there is an inch of ice on that highway. Should you drive 60? Or 40, 30? No you should be at home!

I get your point but isn't the real issue those that lack experience, judgment and don't know the limitations of their equipment and driving skills.

 

[kyfarmer]

100% fact 90% of the public could not drive their finger up their ? if their arm was dipped in lard to the elbow. Every day some idiot is looking right at you and pulls out any way an ya doing 60 mph. No signal at all and those d** fools on their stupid phones. Driving 40 mph. in a 65, we are looking at the zombie class of folks, their own little world. One of those who hits you and gets out , look what you done. :gaah::gaah: Can't help if the public had to take the driving test over they would fail. :nuts: catsraven no rant ya telling the truth.

 

[shadowrider]

Yeah nothing like a few flakes falling to get the other flakes out driving.

 

[dawnwinds58]

No Intelligent Life out there!

I can back up KyFarmer on that opinion.

If something wrong can be done on the road, some drivers will always choose the worst reaction. I was born in Louisiana and dealt with true flooded roads where water seeped in your doors as you drove. Here I have dealt with people in the snow who endangered everyone else on the road. In Texas it was ice and blasting winds. But it isn't just weather conditions. Let one piece of sudden debris hit the road and watch the idiots panic.

I saw one on a clear sunny day hit a pile of gravel left in the road by city crews right in front of my home. He fish-tailed, hit the ditch, and flipped his little foreign car before he could come to a halt, in the ditch on the opposite side of the road. No rain. No fog. No anything. He came over the hill, hit it, and lost it completely. PUHHLEEEZZZ!!! It was a 3 ft long, 1 foot wide line of GRAVEL hit by a NEW car driven by someone mid-thirties????

The people problem when TSHTF isn't going to be the driving ones though, but the starving ones from the cities. You know the kind. They'll walk back and forth to the water faucet for 2 days seeing if it is back on. They'll keep flipping light switches wondering if the power company is on vacation. It will be great adventure, till the food in the fridge runs out and starts to spoil.

When the first true thirst and hunger they have ever experienced begins, they will panic. The stores and their neighbors will be first to feel that fear and panic, but those supplies will either run out, or spoil. Then they will start hitting the suburban areas, and slowly work out into rural America where the places are protected by "The Good Lord and Smith & Wesson" looking for the food they never took the time to store for the disaster they laughed at other people for believing to be coming. Then?

Then we will see just how far they are willing to go, and how far the rural people will go to defend their own existence. There won't be enough to go around. This country imports rather than produces. It does service rather than manufactor. People, with no "land" skills will have a hard time. They finally will realize that maybe that money donated to PETA to build chicken egg layer "condos" may have been better off spent in buying a good breed of meat chicken to raise.
The US is not ready!

 

[GoldenBoys]

I've lived in snow country all my life and see it every year. It seems like people forget how to drive in bad weather every year when it first comes. I always have several routes to get to where I'm going, depending on conditions. If it's bad enough, I just stay home, no matter what. What gets me is that most people don't carry any sort of emergency cloths and gear for bad weather with them. What do you do if you get stranded and need to stay warm or walk to get to help or home? As soon as the temps think about dropping, my big bag with cold weather gear goes in my vehicle and stays with me until warm weather.

 

[efbjr]

Fun in the snow...

I got caught on the New Jersey Turnpike in an ice storm returning from Florida 2 weeks before the "Blizzard of '78" smeared the Northeast...140 miles at 35 mph!

Did 60 miles at 20-25 mph on Rt 495 from New Hampshire heading back to RI. Blowing snow and you couldn't see the road surface. Had to sight up on the treeline to stay on the road! It turned to rain...cleared the road and let me get up to a higher, but safe, speed.

Several years ago, RI got hit on the weekend by a 2 day blizzard that pretty much shut down the state. I had to be at my security post at midnight on both nights. I went down at 9 pm, cleaned off the FWD Cavalier, warmed it up and proceeded at 15 mph to my job site 14 miles away. No sooner than I got on the highway, with about 3 other cars on the road, than some idiot in a SUV decided to tailgate me in the travel lane on a snow packed, icy road! Had to roll the window down and wave the doofus :nuts: to PASS ME, while resisting the urge to make a rude gesture Got to work, early, let the other guard go, as road conditions were deteriorating, called the wife to tell her I made it, and that she would see me when I walked in the door...no way I was going to rush home...slow, steady and safe for me.

The moral of all this rambling...if you have to go out, start early, make sure your vehicle is cleaned off and warmed up, take it slow and steady. Don't do anything stupid like tailgating the other guy. If you want to go faster than he is going, then pass when safe to do so. Maybe he'll stop and pick you up when you skid off the road...you dumba**! :gaah:

 

[catsraven]

I get your point but isn't the real issue those that lack experience, judgment and don't know the limitations of their equipment and driving skills.

I wish it was. Unfortunately I have seen more older drivers do stupid things than younger ones. :gaah: Again I could tell you more stories....

 

[SurviveNthrive]

What some of us won't admit, I will...I'm decent at driving in bad weather NOW because I had to learn somethings when I was younger...but I wasn's stupid about it then either. I actually practiced on roads with little or no traffic, I drove carefully and within a short time I got pretty good, considering I was driving a terrible rear wheel drive vehicle which caught the wind like a sail!

But I didn't simply freeze up and panic, I got off the road when that vehicle wasn't making much headway and I kept driving forward during whiteouts by seeing what I could and sometimes driving by braille!

 

[JayJay]

I can back up KyFarmer on that opinion.

If something wrong can be done on the road, some drivers will always choose the worst reaction. I was born in Louisiana and dealt with true flooded roads where water seeped in your doors as you drove. Here I have dealt with people in the snow who endangered everyone else on the road. In Texas it was ice and blasting winds. But it isn't just weather conditions. Let one piece of sudden debris hit the road and watch the idiots panic.

I saw one on a clear sunny day hit a pile of gravel left in the road by city crews right in front of my home. He fish-tailed, hit the ditch, and flipped his little foreign car before he could come to a halt, in the ditch on the opposite side of the road. No rain. No fog. No anything. He came over the hill, hit it, and lost it completely. PUHHLEEEZZZ!!! It was a 3 ft long, 1 foot wide line of GRAVEL hit by a NEW car driven by someone mid-thirties????

The people problem when TSHTF isn't going to be the driving ones though, but the starving ones from the cities. You know the kind. They'll walk back and forth to the water faucet for 2 days seeing if it is back on. They'll keep flipping light switches wondering if the power company is on vacation. It will be great adventure, till the food in the fridge runs out and starts to spoil.

When the first true thirst and hunger they have ever experienced begins, they will panic. The stores and their neighbors will be first to feel that fear and panic, but those supplies will either run out, or spoil. Then they will start hitting the suburban areas, and slowly work out into rural America where the places are protected by "The Good Lord and Smith & Wesson" looking for the food they never took the time to store for the disaster they laughed at other people for believing to be coming. Then?

Then we will see just how far they are willing to go, and how far the rural people will go to defend their own existence. There won't be enough to go around. This country imports rather than produces. It does service rather than manufactor. People, with no "land" skills will have a hard time. They finally will realize that maybe that money donated to PETA to build chicken egg layer "condos" may have been better off spent in buying a good breed of meat chicken to raise.
The US is not ready!

Oh, you're right---which leaves us, the prepared Christians with a dilemna- do we hand out our stored food to a hungry family?? only to have the word spread to the neighborhood that we're stocked and handing out freebies--to the neighbors who laughed at us for stocking??

It's really bothering me.

If I could move to another house, neighborhood, and not tell a soul what I have, I'd feel better...but not a chance.

 

[SurviveNthrive]

Oh, you're right---which leaves us, the prepared Christians with a dilemna- do we hand out our stored food to a hungry family?? only to have the word spread to the neighborhood that we're stocked and handing out freebies--to the neighbors who laughed at us for stocking??

Here's a plan...feed oatmeal or rice once. Hold up the ladle with food in one hand, a 5.56 mm round in the other. "This is for today. Comeback and you'll get the other."

It's really bothering me.

It should bother us, I think that those here who claim they aren't bothered are 1. lying to themselves, or 2. foolish not having thought it through, or 3. self centered individuals who deserve their fate. I'm not saying that we can't harden our hearts and others might not soften, but what I'm saying is NORMAL, honest, rational people wonder about it.

If I could move to another house, neighborhood, and not tell a soul what I have, I'd feel better...but not a chance.

Limit who you tell, and only divulge part to those who might be of help to you.

 

[gypsysue]

If people around you already know you have food stored up, start letting word casually get around that because of finances or rising grocery prices, you've had to start eating your stored goods. Then don't tell anyone what or how much you actually do have. Make sure to keep it out of sight. Lots of good places to store food.

 

[JayJay]

If people around you already know you have food stored up, start letting word casually get around that because of finances or rising grocery prices, you've had to start eating your stored goods. Then don't tell anyone what or how much you actually do have. Make sure to keep it out of sight. Lots of good places to store food.

Agreed...but I have empty closet space I'm trying to get lots moved into..I have a room, 8 X 8 that was a mud room, turned into a pantry...full with canned goods, supplies, and a refrigerator with a half beef and fish.

The two I told, I can't lie to...they know we couldn't eat that much food.

I just pray about it a lot...

God will send me the answer when I need it.