Off topic, sorta.. What would you do?

Discussion in 'General Chit-Chat' started by CVORNurse, Aug 23, 2009.

  1. CVORNurse

    CVORNurse Well-Known Member

    My stepdaughter, husband, and grandson live next door. They both draw SS disability, and they get a check for the grandson. They also get foodstamps. When they started getting the checks, I was told " we are going to have more money than we need to pay the bills each month" I said good- start a savings because you have no significant raises coming in your future as long as you are willing to settle. Then she went out and bought a HORSE with some of the settlement money. A horse that has to be boarded at a farm, and must have feed bought for it, and vet bills paid- on top of the boarding costs. They also bought DH's truck that he was selling. Various other things, etc. And each month, as soon as the check comes in, they are off to town to blow it all.

    Now fast forward to last night and the real thing I want comments on. SD comes over and asks if the school will let her charge grandson's lunch next week. They are filling out the free lunch form and will at least qualify for the reduced price. But she doesn't have lunch money for the upcoming week of school. She couldn't even think far enough ahead to save back 7 dollars for him. Yet they were just sitting out on their porch smoking- aren't cigs like at least 5 bucks a pack for the cheapies??

    Would you give her the money for his lunch?
    I will probably write a check to the school because I cannot stand the thought of him maybe having to go without lunch. And the last time I was at their house, there was next to nothing in the pantry- don't remember seeing any peanut butter or anything that could be sent for him. Guess I could send over some peanut butter from my house, but then how do I know that he gets it, and not them??

    These are the types of people we are creating with all these entitlement programs. They are happy to sit on their butts all day, as long as they have that minimum payment coming in. They have health care coverage via medicaid and the va (daughter was in navy, and also gets a disability check from them). They have foodstamps that can be spent on their cokes and cookies, foregoing the beans and rice that I am stocked up on. They can also get clothing and utility assistance if necessary through the church we are members of.
    And it hacks me off. I have no problems with helping out someone down on their luck and actively trying to better themselves. Or the chronically ill people that try but just cannot hold down a full time job. Or the elderly who raised their families, giving everything they had to them, but just never had enough to put back to see them through.
    But I have a huge problem taking care of people who just sit there with their hands out, and don't try, and have never tried.

    So would you give her the lunch money for him?
  2. doc66

    doc66 Well-Known Member

    This is a tough one, but the kid needs a lunch.

    There is no way to simply say, "I'm not doing this for you" because the entitlement thought process will think "I got money from them last time--".

    This choice, is ultimately yours. Me, I'd give them seven bucks because no kid deserves to be stuck in that situation, at the same time, you're giving money to people (the parents) who have no concept that you are not handing it to them.

    It's bad all the way around.

  3. Jason

    Jason I am a little teapot

    Can you give the money to the school, and not the parents? It's not the youngster's fault that his parents are trash (sorry-but I'm calling it as I see it) and so he shouldn't pay for their errors by being hungry. On the other side of the coin, if you start giving his parents money theywill expect it all the time. And you could point out that because the horse needs to eat their son is not doing so. These idiots need a wake up call. I'd let the responses to this thread build up for a day or two and sit them down in front of the computer and make them read the responses so that they can see how low they are.

    I work hard and there are still times where there is a lot more month than money. My wife stays home with the baby and we shop at second hand stores, not the mall. My truck is paid for and the Liberty has 8 more payments and we are keeping both for the forseeable future. We've paid off 3 credit cards and have 1 left, which we do not use. Our rent is cheap (we rent from my folks) but we work on the farm and pull our weight. We are far from rich but we have full bellies and are stocking up for the future a little at a time. Nobody is giving us handouts, nor do we feel we are entitled to any.

    Your stepdaughter and her husband are a$$holes and I hope that they read that I said so.

    I apologize to you, CVORNurse, because I realize they are your family. We have people in my family like that and I hate them too.

    Just my 2 cents.
  4. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

    welfare is BULLCRAP


    A few weeks ago, while visiting my sister, my niece and I wanted to make fruit smoothies as a quick & healthy lunch-time treat. So we, along with my sister went to the grocery and got some bananas, strawberries (I had brought up 5 qts of blackberries) and a container of plain yogurt, then went to take our place in line.

    That’s when it happened.

    The quintessential American experience. Standing in line behind a Food Stamp customer. Except they don’t actually use Food Stamps anymore. They’ve got little swipe cards. They put it through, punch in some numbers, and are good to go.

    Free food.

    Pizza rolls. Hot Pockets. Stuffed mushrooms. A box of ice cream sandwiches. 30 freakin' dollars of crap . Thirty dollars worth of feckless extravagance. We (my sister & I, and even my niece) turned and looked at one another and had an unspoken understanding. Our stuff cost $5 and filled five people. And we paid for it with money I had earned by the sweat of my brow, doing things that are more & more being considered below most people's standards in this day and age (menial labor! gasp! :eek: ).

    No welfare card. Just good, old-fashioned US Dollars.

    We had a conversation as we drove home about the curse of welfare, and the shame, and the terrible waste. About the fact that people value what they earn but in many instances don’t value what they're given. About how money that’s given to you is just some meaningless strips of paper, while money that’s paid you as an honest wage for honest work is something precious.
    We also spoke about how the current welfare system is built on theft... the theft of money through taxation that pays for welfare; and, much worse than that, the theft of self-reliance that is perpetrated against the 'beneficiaries' of welfare. Perhaps putting too fine a point on it, but I told my Sister and my 13-year-old niece that the ruin of America will be able-bodied welfare recipients buying pizza rolls and ice cream sandwiches with other people’s money.

    They agreed... and so do most of the people I've ever talked to it seems.

    Because most have stood in that same place in line. Right behind a welfare recipient frittering away unearned money on foolish, wastful, and extravegant 'food' purchases. Steak, lobster, subs, roasted chicken, prepared foods, chips, dip, soda pop, ice cream, sugar drinks, expensive sugary breakfast cereals etc etc. And while this is going on power-hungry 'activists' acting like stage magicians distracting the public from the true problem & evoking the people's innate compassion go on TV to say that poor people can’t afford to eat healthily, and are consequently fatter, and need more government-funded health care. Well, that’s a bunch of self-serving PC BULLCRAP! They don’t need more, they need less.

    Of everything.

    If the government is going to feed those who won’t feed themselves, there should be significant and positive restrictions, to deter waste and to foster frugality. To teach people to make the most of what they have, not to blow their allotment on total crap.
    The fact is that, in America, people can eat very cheaply... but not if they’re buying seven Lunch-ables for dinner. Not if they waste the money so generously given them on luxuries, non-essentials, and on expensive convenience or prepared foods. When you are on welfare, there should be no treats... just good honest basic food. Basic foods which can be tasty, wholesome, nutritious and, best-of-all, inexpensive.
    A 20-pound bag of potatoes doesn’t cost that much. Neither does a 10-pound bag of rice or a variety of store-label canned vegetables. Round steak and ground chuck can be had fairly reasonably, especially if you buy on sales days and in good quantity. If you’re smart about it, a food dollar will stretch like it's made of rubber. Yet as I myself go to discount grocers for much of my shopping, I don’t see welfare recipients walking the aisles with me. And the sick irony is that the people who pay the taxes to fund welfare typically have smaller weekly food budgets than welfare recipients.

    Which kind of makes you wonder who it is exactly that is 'underprivileged'.

    This should be more than just a sore point with (the decreasing number of) working Americans. It should be a major priority of policy-change with politicians. And the people need to tell them so. The types of food purchasable with welfare money should be dramatically reduced. Staples and nothing more. Inexpensive meats, potatoes and rice, vegetables, bread and dairy. No extravagance, no treats, no rip-off previously prepared convenience foods, no crapola . Either do it by programming those cards to only pay for certain types of items, or by creating welfare sections in supermarkets, where appropriate generic products are available and can be purchased with welfare cards. IMHO either suggestion would significantlyy increase the buying power of welfare recipients, or open the door to reducing the cost to taxpayers, or maybe even both... wouldn't that be nice?
    We really need to abandon the ridiculous notion that the 'dignity' or 'rights' of welfare recipients would be hurt by restricting what they can buy with the taxpayer’s dollar. If they want ice cream sandwiches and pizza rolls, let them get a job, any job & contribute to the GDP... It’s not that hard a concept. It may also be fiscally beneficial to look at going back to giving those on the dole commodities, instead of money. We know how to distribute rice, powdered milk, and other goods to foreigners, maybe we should try the same thing with our own people... and we may also want to explore the idea of having them societally contribute for what they get. Picing up litter on the roads, sweeping the floors at city hall, stapling papers in the courthouse, mowing the overgrown grass in the parks (THAT was for you, sailaway ;) ) Anything to return the dignity of work to the subverted people that are the true victims of the culture of welfare, anything to help them bear the burden of their own support and maybe give them back some sense of pride that has been siphoned from them.

    Because the way we do it now is shameful to the extent it should be criminal.

    It is an immoral disservice to both groups, those who have it taken from them and those who have it given to them... It too easily promotes waste and fraud, as it destroys dignity and builds mutual resentment. It squanders the wages of the producers to satisfy the often unrealistic tastes of idlers. My 13-year-old niece knows this. She has seen proof of it with her own eyes.

    What has me mystified is why the supposed smart and aware people who run our government don’t know the same thing...

    Last edited: Aug 23, 2009
  5. UncleJoe

    UncleJoe Well-Known Member

    Call the school. In our district, each child had an account and the parents paid into that. If yours works the same way, you may be able to contribute to that fund without the parents knowing. That way you could say no to them and still be sure the child has lunch. I agree with everyone else. Once you start subsidizing the parents they will expect it whenever they ask.

    Good Luck
  6. Canadian

    Canadian Well-Known Member

    I'd tell the kid he can come to my house and we'll make a pack lunch for him together. We'll talk about school and make sure he's fed and learning proper values at the same time. He'd learn how to make a good lunch and he'd get some good parenting. If you're next door there's no reason why he can't come over and make a lunch to take together. It'll be good for the grandson.
  7. SurvivalNut

    SurvivalNut Retired Army

    The other option is to pack a lunch for kim each day for the week, but that puts him in the middle. I'd pay the school the couple of dollars and draw the line in the sand to the parents.

    My parents grew up during the depression. I grew up (poor) less than well off, but better for it. 28 years ago ( I am 50 now) I asked to borrow 20 dollars to make a car insurance payment. My mom chewed, chastised and humilited me in front of my wife.

    I thank her for that... everyday I start to get stupid her spirit is looking over my shoulder and kicking me in the ***. I don't get stupid that often anymore.

    I also learned there was no fallback plan except myself.

    I see too many grandapents in our church raising grandkids. I would do the same, so I am not shy when I give advice instead of bucks to my 5 kids who range from CPA's to broke and at home...

    I have a 26 year old son back home because he made stupid financial choices. Each payday he gives me his check and we pay his bills together, give him an allowance with the balance and lock up the checkbook. It's that way or the street. I don't charge him for food or rent, but I set the rules or he's out. I will have 8 cords of wood for the winter. He's good at something. He'll be debt free in a year. I'll have a loty more wood too.

    He was getting help from church and I finally told them to stop! so he could grow up and feel consequences.

    You are not alone.
  8. doc66

    doc66 Well-Known Member

    I've got a little different take on the whole "Welfare" thing. While, yes, there are folks out there who take advantage of the whole system, there are other who for reasons not their own, have lost jobs, come across economic down times and have hit a spell of bad luck in general. They get food stamps or what have you not because they feel entitled, but because they have no real other choice. We see this more and more in these times right now. The way I see it, some of these people have paid into the system for the last twenty years and to me, they are just getting back a little of the sweat they paid in. They are not freeloaders or trash, they are just down and out.

    People are going to eat what they will eat. Is it always healthy? No. It's it the best thing for you to eat? No. But we've developed a society of people who don't know how to cook healthy nor do they have the palate to distinguish good food from bad food, They eat this crap because they don't know any different. Blame who you want, but we are a nation of fast food and convenience eaters.

    I like pizza rolls every now and then. I like the frozen pizza occasionally, and I like to eat crap now and again. We all do, we might not want to admit to it, but we all do it in some way, be it the Haggen Das or the Snickers. I also like to cook, so I also eat fresh foods and homemade bread. I can make a quiche that will knock your socks off and a spinach or squash risoto to die for. I make my own pasta, pesto and love a good tomato sandwich out of the garden with fresh mozzarella and prosciutto.

    What I'm saying is that while we can degrade people who might be swiping that card, we really have to look at the totality of the circumstances as we say in law enforcement. They might be swiping that card because they have no choice. They eat what they do because a lot of the reason people eat like they do is because we've taught them too and we've also taught them that they can blow cash like there's no tomorrow because we've lead them to believe that there is not a tomorrow. Let's face it, the OP's SD blows cash because, well, no one taught her to save for a rainy day. She gets her check every month, so why not?

    While I believe that people should take responsibility for themselves, I also know that we as a society don't expect them to, and so they don't. People are products of their environment and if they have not seen a different path, or experience another way, they will do as they have seen and been taught.
  9. Jason

    Jason I am a little teapot

    That's a good point, Doc, but I still stand by what I said. I've been unemployed and had my checks run out. When that happened, I got a job making $9 an hour and worked all the overtime I could. And I did NOT buy a horse.

    7 months ago I weighed 275 lbs. I realized I ate like crap and I felt like crap. Now I weigh 195 and am still steadily losing weight. I learned how to cook healthy and how to eat healthy. My wife is down 50 lbs in the same time period. That said, we still go out for ice cream. We still have pizza now and then. We still have the occasional "bender" where we eat like we used too. Just not very often. We do it in moderation.

    I say this not to sound holier-than-thou, but rather to say that I have woken up to the error of my ways and fixed my problems. I do better than $9 an hour now. Not a whole lot more, but more. We have less than a hundred dollars in the bank right now due to our bills all bunching up. But that's OUR problem and we are not looking for handouts.

    I'll buy food for anyone who truly needs it. If someone is injured, ill, mentally or physically handicapped, or otherwise genuinely incapacitated to the point that they cannot provide for themselves and their own, there is no shame in public assistance. That's one of the perks of living in a country like ours. Ideally, our government should be able to take care of those who need it. That means buying milk and veggies for the single mom who has noone to watch her infant. That does NOT mean buying pizza rolls for the 400 pound fata$$ that can't be bothered to get a job because he's too busy watching Springer.
  10. sailaway

    sailaway Well-Known Member

    Lots of good advice here CVorNurse, I guess I have .02 also. I would invite the GC over and pack a lunch together it would be a way to spend time and instill your values o in him. I would never give the parents any money. I may considder putting a couple $s in the childs lunch account without the parents knowing it.
    I was also wondering about somebody drawing disability and having a horse, does the Gov't know they can ride, but can't work?:eek:
  11. CVORNurse

    CVORNurse Well-Known Member

    Well, DH and I had a long overdue "come to Jesus" with daughter. I realize problem isn't solved, but it is better for now. I gave her the lunch money, but she brought it back because come to find out, his approval for free or reduced lunch had already arrived.

    I do worry that this smart little fellow will have too much of his parents rub off on him. He had an older half sister who lives with her dad in Houston. He was active duty military when a judge gave him full custody of a 4 year old. I wondered how he managed that until daughter moved back home to us after losing custody. Now I know, and have actually apologized to the ex son in law for telling him he was unwelcome at our home. Little fellow doesn't have a parent to step in for him, so we will have to from time to time. The main reason we allow them to live in a trailer on our land. At least I can feed him and make sure he is taken care of.
  12. CVORNurse

    CVORNurse Well-Known Member

    Well, her " disabilities" are 1. Migraine headaches and 2. PTSD
    1. I work with 2 women who also have migraines. One is a single mom who receives no help from anyone, other than she lives in a family home that was unoccupied. I have seen both of them work when their heads hurt so bad they took breaks with the lights to the break room turned off. And one worked the other day holding an ice pack on her head to help.
    2. Daughter never saw any active duty. She was a corpsman taking care of newborns :confused:. She says she was traumatized because the first delivery she attended was an anencephalic ( no brain, head deformed). I realize that was bad, but.............

    Now the son in law has a bad back. He really does have herniated discs, and has an implanted stimulator to help with the pain. Supposedly the only type of surgery that would help him is to fuse his spine and insert rods. I know some of this is legit, but he seems to be able to pick up heavy things if he wants to. And he can sit all day at the computer, playing games. That hurts my back more than anything.

    Thanks for the advice everyone, and I feel better for griping. :thankyou: These are the extras I plan for when I plan how much food I need to keep stocked for my ememrgency supplies. Because I know I will take little fellow in, and don't think I am hard hearted enough to turn away mom and dad.
  13. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

    well... if he's truly interested in getting his back fixed... he needs to see ANOTHER doctor, also, call the state medical board on whatever doctor decided that fusion & rod insertion was the answer, because THAT is the cutting edge of medical knowledge... in 1955 :eek::mad: because a spinal fusion is completely unnecessary for somebody who can sit or walk (carrying anything or not) multiple severely herniated & even ruptured discs can be treated with an outpatient proceedure called a microdiscectomy in the doctor's office instead of in the hospital. And, "an implanted 'stimulator' "? ... wtf? sounds like an osteopathic quack (as opposed to the regular quack with an MD) to me, please please, please find some BETTER doctors

    also, the co-worker that had an icepack to her head for a migraine could also very well be exacerbating the condition because many migraines have exposure to cold as an onset condition and an icepack will in those situations make things worse

    PTSD... well my opinion of the entire "science" of psychiatry is biased towards the realm of "it's all a crock & a self-perpetuating field of study, designed by social parasites that don't want to do any real work so they convince the public of the necessity of their continuance" wow, sounds a LOT like lawyers ;)

    well, best of luck to you, I personally believe you're setting yourself up to REALLY need it...