Mandatory flu vaccinations?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by OFG, Jul 14, 2009.

  1. OFG

    OFG Active Member

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  2. Canadian

    Canadian Well-Known Member

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    I don't really like anything that's manditory.
     

  3. SurvivalNut

    SurvivalNut Retired Army

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    Unless I am really missing something, this is just a point that anti-globalists are jumping on to stir up a frenzy.

    Flu shots are always rationed and there is always an order of precedence given to risk groups. Notice younger people have a higher priority than us old folks this time, normally the opposite, but correct with the swine flu risk experience. (similar to the 1918 flu).

    Nowhere was "mandatory" mentioned.

    Go ahead and skip your shot. I will volunteer for mine.

    Dig your hole a little deeper and hide from civilization.

    Read the facts, don't follow the panic mongers.
     
  4. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

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    maybe they're worried about another debacle like 'The Swine Flu Fiasco of 1976'? which reduced confidence in public health pronouncements from the government and helped foster cynicism about federal policy makers that continues to this day.

    ONE soldier died at Ft. Dix, six were hospitalized, 500 had the flu strain in their bodies but DIDN'T GET SICK

    $137 million, 10 weeks, and 40 MILLION innoculations later, for a 'flu that never was'; the program was shut down due to the 'high incidence of fatal antecedent events'

    over 50 confirmed deaths from the vaccine...

    idk... 1 out of a million doesn't seem that high, unless you're 'the one' of course
     
  5. OFG

    OFG Active Member

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    Unless I am really missing something, this is just a point that anti-globalists are jumping on to stir up a frenzy.

    Such as the New Jersey mandate of last year requiring preschoolers to get flu shots? N.J. Mandatory Flu Shots for Preschoolers Cause Outrage - ABC News

    Sure this was from last year and for the regular flu, but don't you think its possible they may do the same with the new flu/vaccine?


    Flu shots are always rationed and there is always an order of precedence given to risk groups. Notice younger people have a higher priority than us old folks this time, normally the opposite, but correct with the swine flu risk experience. (similar to the 1918 flu).


    What's your point?


    Nowhere was "mandatory" mentioned.

    Did you read the question?
    Again it was:
    "How do you all feel about vaccinations? What if they do become mandatory, will you get one?"

    Go ahead and skip your shot. I will volunteer for mine.

    Good for you! And you actually answered part of the question! Are you going to volunteer your kids (or grandkids as the case may be) as well?

    Dig your hole a little deeper and hide from civilization.

    WTF are you even talking about here? You don't know me or my position on the questions I asked. For all you know I could hold the same opinions as you do. Yet you tell me to dig a hole and hide in it? F-you too buddy.

    Read the facts, don't follow the panic mongers.

    I read as much as I can on any topic that interests me, sorting fact from fiction is the tricky part. I also like to discuss things I read with intelligent people, without attempting to put them down in the process just because my personal beliefs may be different than those of others.
     
  6. SurvivalNut

    SurvivalNut Retired Army

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    Your mentioned oped news link was broken and the WHO article did not mention "mandatory".

    I answered based on the information you presented, not the information you failed to present or kept in your head.

    To open a factual discussion, the facts, as they are presented, are discussed.

    I enjoy a debate based on facts as well.
     
  7. NaeKid

    NaeKid YourAdministrator, eh?

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    Play nice boys ... keep the name-calling out of the posts please.

    :thankyou:
     
  8. SurvivalNut

    SurvivalNut Retired Army

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    Noted. I will play nice.
     
  9. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

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    saw THIS on another forum & thought of this thread

    Health Care Bill Will Fund State Vaccine Teams to Conduct ‘Interventions’ in Private Homes
    Thursday, July 16, 2009
    By Terence P. Jeffrey, Editor-in-Chief

    President Barack Obama announces Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, left, as his nominee for Health & Human Services Secretary, Monday, March 2, 2009, in the East Room at the White House in Washington. (AP Photo/Ron Edmonds)(CNSNews.com) - There is a knock at the front door. Peeking through the window, a mother sees a man and a woman, both in uniform. They are agents of health-care reform.

    “Excuse me, ma’am,” says the man. “Our records show that your eleven-year-old daughter has not been immunized for genital warts.”

    “And your four-year-old still needs the chicken-pox vaccine,” says the woman.

    “He will not be allowed to start kindergarten unless he gets that shot, you know,” says the man—smiling from ear to ear.

    “So, can we please come in?” asks the woman. “We have the vaccines right here,” she says, lifting up a black medical bag. “We can give your kids the shots right now.”

    “We are from the government,” says the man, “and we’re here to help.”

    Is this a scene from the over-heated imagination of an addlepated conspiracy theorist? Or is it something akin to what is actually envisioned by the health-care reform bill approved this week by the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pension Committee.

    The committee’s official summary of the bill says: “Authorizes a demonstration program to improve immunization coverage. Under this program, CDC will provide grants to states to improve immunization coverage of children, adolescents, and adults through the use of evidence-based interventions. States may use funds to implement interventions that are recommended by the Community Preventive Services Task Force, such as reminders or recalls for patients or providers, or home visits.”

    Home visits? What exactly is the state going to do when it sends people to “implement interventions” in private homes designed “to improve immunization coverage of children”?

    The draft of the bill posted on the committee Web site provides more details.

    CNSNews.com - Health Care Bill Will Fund State Vaccine Teams to Conduct ‘Interventions’ in Private Homes
     
  10. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

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    Tamiflu is proven to work vs. swine flu... so WHY does the govt. need to authorize $1.8 billion (yes, BILLION with a 'B') not for vaccine production but merely for 'research'
     
  11. OldFashionedMama

    OldFashionedMama Partyin' like it's 1699

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    Mandatory is a nice scare word they use to make more money. Every state allows for exemption. Unfortunately not all states allow for philosophical, or non-religious exemption. My state of Ohio thankfully does, and we have legal exemption forms for my husband and our three children. ( I was vaccinated as a kid, hubby was not.) If the school districts get pushy enough, I'll simply pull them out and homeschool. I believe that in certain circumstances, some vaccines are useful. Overall I disagree with the theory behind vaccination and believe that artificial exposure to pathogens ultimately weakens the body's natural immune system, leaving it vulnerable to even more dangerous pathogens than the ones we were trying to avoid with the shots. And dare I say it, but my kids vaccinated friends and little cousins sure seem to get sick a lot compared to them.

    So yeah, mandatory my behind. If my government EVER decides it has the right to inject my family with poisons, well that's the day we bug the hell outta here.
     
  12. the_examined_life

    the_examined_life Active Member

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    Blob.... can you site your resource about the tamaflu vs the swine flu? I'm curious to check that out.
     
  13. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

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    my personal source is my friends, who are RNs & Doctors

    but...

    Tamiflu is most effective treatment for swine flu | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Dallas Business News

    Roche Says Tamiflu Works in Swine Flu Despite Denmark Case - WSJ.com

    if they had ramped up production at the beginning of summer they could have 400 MILLION courses for US consumption, MUCH more than what is required for herd immunity... & properly utilized the virus could be eliminated with a minimalized chance of mutation into a resistant form

    unfortunately everything will be done 1/2-a$$ed with these d!psh!t innoculations, just like everything else our govt. manages to do

    I already have Tamiflu courses for MY family, how about you? ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2009
  14. the_examined_life

    the_examined_life Active Member

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    I coud use some Tamiflu so if you know how I could get my hands on some that would be great.

    We have talked as family, extended family and friends and we're all looking to shelter in place and NOT take any vaccine from the Gov. Esp when it comes to this one.

    I have read that the swine flu orgins track back to US labs from the 98 and 99 samples they had on file. Additionally I have read that scientists have reported that there is no known orgin or refrence point where which the avian and swine have mixed leading people to belive that this... ASSUMING IT IS REAL... was man made. However, with that being said, my thoughts are if it was, why would it have been released without a vaccine already produced?

    Personally I question the validity of it all and definately don't trust any vaccines they are going to throw together in less than a yrs time. The amount of data that needs to be processed to understand the efficacy can not be done in this short time frame.

    Furthermore... I am big into alternative care. I see a naturopathic ND. I haven't had RX in my system for over 3 yrs including cold meds. I have my vit/min/ and aminos tested and a diet customized for me. I'm into organic and whole food cures and if I had children, my wife and I have agreed that we will not vaccinate our kids.

    I have a long story about the naturopathic med and why i made the switch a few yrs back if you're really interested. But my experience is that my quality of life has dramatically improved since making the move. Granted I still use Kaiser if and when I need to.. but its not and never will be my primary care.
     
  15. SurvivalNut

    SurvivalNut Retired Army

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    I agree that annual flu vaccines may be rushed into production, but I certainly appreciate being immunized against polio in the 1950's.

    Would having saved 50-100 million people in 1918 outweighed the risks of the flu vaccine if it were available?

    Do you ever travel internationally? Wouldn't that be risky unvaccinated?

    I totally agree vaccination is voluntary, I defend your right to choose, but I believe others being vaccinated aids in the health defense of the unvaccinated (herd immunity)

    Being unvaccinated in the USA is a wiser choice than say in Mexico or Indonesia, no?

    Just wondering.....
     
  16. the_examined_life

    the_examined_life Active Member

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    I look at the 5 or so vaccinations that I received as a child and I would have no issue with my kids receiving those. Kids now have to get a series of 17 before entering kindergarten. What has changed in the last 30 years that requires that many?

    There has also been a high correlation between autism and preservatives, mercury and others, used in the vaccinations. Adults can handle the preservatives and toxicity much better than small children can. I realize the arguement still exists as to whether or not this is the case and I have interviewed MD's on both sides of the issue. The worst reason I got from a MD is, and I will summarize, " the frequency or chance of autism accuring due to a vaccination is rare even if they are the cause. The population as a whole is better off because of them however we have seen no solid evidence to prove either case."

    That's not good enough for me. I would rather they replace the perservatives and then I would be fine.

    As for the travel question. Yes I do travel and years ago I was vaccinated for Hep and a few others. However, in recent years by personal interest and study has me questioning the FDA and other gov based institutions that recommend various solutions.

    For example, I look at the WTO and Codex and the push to regulate supplements and how they consider vitamins and minerals as toxins and now they will have to control the use of it. The only one who is benefiting by the new strict guidelines implimented by Codex is the Pharma companies. People have used whole foods and biproducts of those foods for centuries. Now all of a sudden we need a group telling us that they have to approve what we can and can not put into our bodies..please. Codex actualluy governs multiple nations.. if you haven't looked into it I highly recommend it.

    But I digress...

    Bottom line is this. We are fortunate to NOT live in a 3rd world country. We don't have a lot of the health issue others face. I don't see the need for 17 vaccinations for kids. Yes there are a few that I would be comfortable with my children receiving but definately not all. As for manditory Vaccs with this swine flu... I fear the vaccinations could be worse than the actual flu. There have been no significant number of cases leading to death. We already average over 30,000 deaths in the US to the flu each year. I don't see this as being much worse... in my opinion of course. Additionally, with the rush to produce such a vaccine without the protocol in place to test propperly... there is no way in HELL I would ever take that S&*T!!! I fear the so-called cure could be a lot worse than the illness itself.
     
  17. SurvivalNut

    SurvivalNut Retired Army

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    Mandatory immunizations

    I appreciate your response. I still agree and disagree on some points, but have probably scootched a little closer to your side of the line. Thanks for helping me understand your view on the issue.
     
  18. the_examined_life

    the_examined_life Active Member

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    NP...and thanks for asking and listening.

    I just noticed that you are retired military. During your service, did they give you various vaccines without telling you what you were getting? What is your opinion as to the reports of unknown vaccinces given the to the troops overseas and several of them having severe reactions?

    I also see you're from Spokane. Great country up there! I lived there for a few months.. along wih Ephrata, Moses Lake, E. Wenatchee and Yakima. I just wish I could have had more time east of Spokane near Liberty Lake and Coeur d’Alene ID.
     
  19. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

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    having worked in MRDD (now just called DD) for years I'm wondering if:

    awareness of autism is greater...

    incidence of autism is greater...

    or if autism has merely become a blanket 'diagnosis-of-choice'? (like hyperactivity & ADD were)

    many of my 'clients' were diagnosed with autism yet also diagnosed with other psychological conditions (ex. pika) that they should never have been diagnosed with if they truly were autistic due to how autistics perceive the world...

    IMO... laziness on the part of state medical staff has played a large part
     
  20. the_examined_life

    the_examined_life Active Member

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    All good questions Blob... I also wonder how much of it is a really a regional problem. When I was in CA I administered benefit plans primarily for k-12 education. Having grown up in the area and going through the same school districts I later serviced, I was amazed at the numbers of children with autism. I recall the handful that we had growing up and they typically bussed them all to one location. Now there are classes at almost every school paced with students.

    I often question if being in the heart of "silicon valley" had anything to do with it as well. I know that companies using lead and mercury for the chip development there didn't have to change the way they use to vent their exhaust into the air in 2002. Or could it be that in South San Jose the world’s second largest producing mercury mine still contaminates many lakes in the area and eating any fish from those lakes is prohibited. How much is leeching into the water table?

    As far as awareness.. I'm sure that has definitely played a part on the national and world stage. But to what extent? Has it come like the so-called year of the shark attack down in FL when the media hyped it up when the number of attacks weren't really that far off the norm? Or possibly like a few years ago when the media hyped up some high profile kidnappings when violent crime and kidnapping stats were actually level or down from prior years? I'm sure there is some influence from all the coverage it is receiving…however it still doesn't resolve the key questions as whether or not preservatives in such vaccinations are the cause or catalyst to problems like this.

    With all of our technology, why are we continuing to use potentially harmful additives?? Is the cost too much for these companies to bear?

    I learned this much about myself in the past few years. I found that my brain chemistry was significantly altered by the accumulation of lead and mercury in my own system. Who knows if it was from food or just environmental? Probably both. But if it could have such a dramatic affect on me as to trick MD's to think that I was "hypo-manic" by altering my chemistry, and then what is it doing to small children where much smaller amounts have a more significant affect.

    I mentioned earlier that its been 3yrs off any Rx and the use of a Naturopath.. It was this triggering event that sent me on this course of focusing on whole foods and finding natural cures. Back in 95 I was diagnosed as being Hypo-manic. They had asked me a battery questions and family background. Because my mother and sister were bipolar, they rushed to a diagnosis on what was keeping me from sleeping and inability to stay focused. over the next year and a half i was the test subject for a couple MDs. I went from drug to drug testing them out to see what worked. The MDs were trying to take the easy road and just gave me something to pacify me or issue the band aid instead of looking deeper for a cure.

    During that year I started doing a considerable amount of reading on the subject still in denial as to what was going on. I accepted the fact that my chemistry was a mess but I refused to accept the fact that I had other issues. Maybe I did, maybe I didn't. Regardless, I started looking into naturopathic med and the healing effects of whole foods.

    I found a ND that I trusted and began working right away. She ran a battery of "REAL" tests this time. Blood, urine... testing brain chem, heavy metal toxicity, vit/min/amino deficiencies, food allergies and so on. The results came back; Highly allergic to dairy, wheat, gluten and very high levels of lead and mercury. She informed me that my tests on the brain chem showed lower levels of serotonin, melatonin, dopamine, eppinerferine and nor eppie... (assuming I spelled those right).

    She believed that the so-called verbal tests and family history were misleading and that they should have tested like she had done... which I agreed. She went on to tell me that the brain chem could be altered by change in my diet, specific vit/min/aminos and removal of the heavy metals in my system. We immediately made the changes and started the oral keylation to remove the heavy metals. I stopped the use of the various drugs I was on that were making me feel "stoned" all day long.

    Fast forward to today.... I haven't taking anything not even an aspirin. I use to get 3-5 colds a year and I have only had 1 that lasted 3 days in the past 3 years. I have been sleeping normally for well over 2 yrs and have lost about 60lbs back to my normal weight. My energy has been through the roof and life for me has never been better!!

    I'm a big advocate for natural medicine. I do believe in western med, but only when all else fails. Prevention through proper diet and nutrition has done more for me than anything else. I have continued to read and study with regards to the use of micronutrients, super foods, whole foods and natural cures. The more I study the more I question as to who is really benefiting from the heavy use Rx products. Granted I know that they are needed in many cases... but I feel that MDs are taking the short cut by just issuing them rather than spending the time trying to find real problem. It doesn't help that they are constantly bombarded by big pharma reps pushing the "cure-all". People have grown accustomed to the quick fix in life which in most cases, in my opinion of course, isn't the answer or best approach.