Magic/Supernatural? Do you believe?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Turtle, Jul 27, 2011.

  1. Turtle

    Turtle Well-Known Member

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    I just finished Jim Butcher's new book, "Ghost Story", and it got me thinking:

    There seem to be lots of hardcore Christians on this site; do you believe in magic/ghosts/paranormal things? If so, how do you reconcile that with your religioius beliefs?

    Personally, I believe that many paths lead to the same place, and many religions share so much of a common mythology, so there is lots of lattitude in my belief structure. I am nominally Catholic, though I am honest enough to recognize the pagan aspects and give them their due respect as well.
     
  2. BillS

    BillS Well-Known Member

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    What appear to be ghosts are really demons. They want you to believe there's no heaven and no hell after you die.

    I saw a ghost when I was 12 or so. I went to wake up my grandma for supper. When I went into the bedroom I saw a very tall, very dark shape bent over her. When it saw me it stood up, looked at me, and went through a wall.

    I once had a book about Satan called "The Adversary". After I got the book weird things started happening. Once when I was sitting at my computer I felt my cat brush up against me. I reached down to pet him but he wasn't there. I looked around and he was sleeping on a chair. A couple of times when I had the book in my car I would be somewhere in public. I'd feel a tap on my shoulder, I'd turn around, and nobody would be there. It happened once in a grocery store when I was all by myself in the middle of an aisle. Another time at Dairy Queen when there was nobody even close to me. Once I got rid of the book it all stopped. It's another reason that I believe all occult activity is the work of Satan and his angels.
     

  3. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

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    I personally don't see why God, the supernatural, and/or alien intelligences need to be exclusive to each other...
     
  4. TheAnt

    TheAnt Aesops Ant (not Aunt)

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    If I have the understanding of the terminology correct, Supernatural is anything that is of a higher nature -- usually meaning something that is not of this world (universe) or that defies the natural laws of this world (universe).

    By that definition, God is in fact supernatural. Other than God, there is nothing that is supernatural apart from angels and demons (who are actually just fallen angels) that He (God) has revealed to us. This might leave a little room for interpretation but my personal belief (and, as my pastor says, with my opinion and 4$ you can buy a cup of coffee at Starbucks) is that if its supernatural and its not God (or His angels doing his will) then it is demonic. Unless God allows it (which I have no memory of this ever happening in scripture) on a case by case basis, folks dont "haunt" or in any way have means to contact the living. When people 'contact the dead' they are speaking with demons who CAN have supernatural knowledge or other. Those who are demon possessed may have some supernatural abilities. Christians cannot be possessed. Christians cannot be harmed by demons unless authorized by God (read Job).

    Magic on the other hand is simply natural deception, trickery of the eyes, etc. etc.

    EDIT: I would also point out that folks who are walking by means of the Spirit (the third part of the Trinity, not ghosts) may also be able to do supernatural things but only if it is God will. They cant do it of their own will or power. I believe that if you have faith in the right object (Christ) and are acting according to the will of God that you can actually and literally have faith that can move mountains. The Bible is full of this sort of thing but it was/is rare and is only possible when according to the will of God.
     
  5. TheAnt

    TheAnt Aesops Ant (not Aunt)

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    I would agree that I dont see why God (who is supernatural if I understand the term) has to be exclusive of aliens though I am a bit skeptical of their existance.
     
  6. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

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    I'm not skeptical of the possibility of alien life, just most tales of 'visitation'... :melikey: the sci-fi tho :rolleyes:
     
  7. TheAnt

    TheAnt Aesops Ant (not Aunt)

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    Agreed. Thank you for clearing that up.
     
  8. Meerkat

    Meerkat Seeking The Truth

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    Yes there are spirits,most are demons,imo.Many are in government,hehe.:eek:

    I've had dealings with a few demons after playing with a Quigi Board.Since I did'nt learn from that I also visited a fortune teller that caused me to wreck my car,the witch told me the day,that it would be raining and in the afternoon!
    But the Quigi Board'spl' was the worse.
    I think there are good and bad angels ,the bible tells us to be careful how we treat others,it could be angels unaware.I just have'nt met the good ones yet.:scratch
    I had visions all my life and out of body experiances.None in past 30 years though.
    Not even an supernatural angel could tell me there is no spirit world,maybe thats why I've seeked the answers so long.
     
  9. Immolatus

    Immolatus Just getting started. Always.

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    In short: No.

    "The supernatural or supranatural (Latin: super, supra "above" + natura "nature") is anything above or beyond what one holds to be natural or exists outside natural law and the observable universe.

    ": of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
    2a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature

    To summarize the above definitions: Anything we dont understand.
    Anything we dont understand we attribute to something else (we dont understand either) which makes more sense to us (anthropomorphism, I think?), i.e. god/religion/mythology. See 'We were created in his image'. I think it was the other way around, we created him in our image. Humans invent things (gods) to explain things we dont comprehend. It started with gods of nature (the wind, sea, sky, etc) and got simplified to just one god to explain it all.

    Just my opinion, which along with $4 will buy me a cup of coffee at SBUX.
     
  10. CulexPipiens

    CulexPipiens Still waiting for the zombies.

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    I too am not skeptical of the possibility of alien life... however I am skeptical of their supposed fascination with our orifices! :D


    My mother has been with 3 of 4 of my grandparents when they passed away. As she related it... During the last day or two the dieing were definitely communicating with long passed away relatives as if they were right their sitting with them. In one of the cases their cat was acting very strange and staring at a section of the wall near the ceiling which was right over my grandmother. He did this for the last 2 days before she passed. He'd sit there staring at that area with a strange look on his face and do so for hours. He never did this before and has never done it since. Only during her last 2 days. During the same time their dog avoided that part of the house completey. In a couple of the deaths she also felt a presecense there right at the end. The feeling left just after they passed away.

    I'm not sure if you'd consider this supernatural or religious or something else but it definitely makes you think there is more to it than just the physical that we normally can touch and see.
     
  11. Magus

    Magus Scavenger deluxe

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    I'm Pagan.
    ghosts, spirits, demons etc. are every day visitors.:)
     
  12. Calebra

    Calebra Well-Known Member

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    I do. Hard not to with some of the stuff I've seen. Plus the damn yeti keeps on chucking stuff at me while I am cutting firewood. Damn annoying.
     
  13. efbjr

    efbjr Well-Known Member

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    Strange neighbor...

    Take a picture...you'll be famous! :congrat: Considering the amount of forestland available for them to live in in North America, especially Canada, the possibility that they can exist undetected is good, especially if they are intelligent enough to avoid humans. :rolleyes:

    So...what did you do to tick your local Yeti off? :confused:
     

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  14. DJgang

    DJgang I put SAs on IGNORE!

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    You are one of the first pagan I've ever seen mention demons. :D




    I always pray for god to bind evil spirits...that's seems to keep them away.

    As for ghosts, as in souls that once lived, yes, I think they exist, but we must be careful, very careful in dealing with them..because it could be demon in disguise :eek:

    So much out there, we may never know the full extent of it all.
     
  15. Turtle

    Turtle Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, for the most part.

    I feel that ghosts are definitely a logical possibility. Look at it from a scientific stand-point; our thoughts are no more than electrical impulses bouncing between synapses.... why couldn't those electrical impulses be transfered, trapped, or copied into something conductive? There are still far too many things in this world which we do not fully understand to simply dismiss a possibility.

    As for magic, I think this too can be explained logically. We don't use 80% of the capacity of our brains; who is to say that that unused portion couldn't tap in to a natural energy to accomplish things? I read a book years ago that presented the theory that all "superhero" powers would be possible through telekinesis. The ability to start fires? simply agitating molecules until they catch fire, like rubbing two sticks together with your mind. Flight? Simply creating lift by manipulating the airflow around your body. Impenetrable skin? Actively pushing things away from your body on an instinctual level. I'm not a science guy by any means, but I think there is enough of a chance that these things could be accomplished as to be able to say that they are possible, if not probable.

    As for other spirits existing, I believe this too is more than likely. To me, this goes along with the arrogance of people who say that we are 100% alone in the universe. Life formed on this planet, there is no reason to think that it did not form on others, perhaps not in the same form with which we are familiar. As such, why couldn't other spirits exist on a different plane, or even in a slightly different manner in our own?
     
  16. Magus

    Magus Scavenger deluxe

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    I'm afraid I've been taught by many Sorcerers of various paths,sometimes they mesh.Daemon are not ALL our enemies,in fact some love us/make pets of us.others like the fallen,loathe us and are purely malevolent.some are just Astral predators,some intelligent,some bestial."demon" is as broad a term as earthling.I mean is it a Man, a bug, or a T Rex?

    Some Daemon will masquerade as a lost loved one or the dead for a meal.don't worry,what they take most humans can't use anyway,others like the fallen[who oddly have nothing to do with Satan who has his own servants.]hate humankind and have done so since Eve became self-aware.fortunately they respond to prayers and holy things.others do not.depends on what they are really.a pre-Adamite will sit there and laugh at you if[rarely happens]he's causing trouble past getting his dinner.
     
  17. Magus

    Magus Scavenger deluxe

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    Leave him a bag of fruit and meat scraps,show him you can be gotten along with.do this ever so often,get the video, get rich, put in gas heat. problem solved.:D
     
  18. Calebra

    Calebra Well-Known Member

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    Video evidence is not worth anything anymore--too easy to fake. A guy took a video about 45 miles away from me a months ago. Look up spokane yeti on youtube.
    I think I keep waking him up with my chainsaw.This particular one is the lazy kind that likes his afternoon naps. One thing for sure--I am going armed next time lol. And probably in a different direction.
    But seriously--freaked me out.I am the sort that jumps to conclusions on stuff like this but it was a weird situation.3 situations to be exact.
     
  19. Magus

    Magus Scavenger deluxe

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    When has it EVER been worth anything?only your sensitivity to energy can tell you what is real and what is faked.
     
  20. *Andi

    *Andi Supporting Member

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    Do you believe? Yea, I believe ... :wave: