locking the government doors

Discussion in 'Politics' started by stayingthegame, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. stayingthegame

    stayingthegame Well-Known Member

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    has anyone thought about what will happen is we shut down the government?:dunno: congress HAS to get paid,:eek: it's in the Constitution. but SS payments, military pay will not go out.:cry: who is going to benefit by the shut down. what will some of you do during the shut down? do you think there will be a shut down? wondering if our preps will come in handy now?
     
  2. TheAnt

    TheAnt Aesops Ant (not Aunt)

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    My understanding is that they are obligated to pay for those things no matter what. Basically the only thing that will change if the debt ceiling is not raised is that they wont be able to fund any new spending. Eventually they would have to slow/stop entitlement spending but that needs to happen anyway. I hope they dont raise the debt ceiling... I think this is the perfect opportunity for the conservatives to cut spending and if they compromise on this its another sad day for the US of A. :surrender:

    I got a reply from AZ Senator Kyl saying that he would not vote in favor of anything that didnt have a balanced budget ammendment... I hope he holds that line.
     

  3. Meerkat

    Meerkat Seeking The Truth

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    Most entitlements are unconstitutional to begin with.Social Security,Social Securirty Disability.Just the same everyone was and is forced to pay into it.Just like we are forced to pay into automobile insurenc,homeowners,fishing,drivers licenses,gun license and so on.
    They have even managed to treat themselves to a very hefty retirement package and the best beefits our money can buy.
    But where the majorty of the tax money goes is to welfare and education grants,housing,food,medical for millions of dependants who have never paid into the tax fund a single dime,many never will.But you don't hear a peep about his.lets just complain about the old fools who worked and paid all their adult lives.
    Many years we paid more into this ponzi scheme than some people made.
     
  4. Immolatus

    Immolatus Just getting started. Always.

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    My guess is that wont actually happen. I think this is different than a traditional 'shutdown'.
    Theres no way in hell that they are going to let us default on debt payments because that would spell disaster, and they know it. If that actually happened, it because they let it happen, and they could only let it happen BECAUSE THEY WANT IT TO.
    If we assume that they do nothing about the debt ceiling, my guess is that they pull some shady accounting tricks to get around it.
    It will all come down to perception. By foreign debt holders/buyers (lenders) and the ratings agencies. If our debt gets downgraded, and why shouldnt it regardless of the outcome of this whole charade, then all hell breaks loose. If the Chinese cut us off, then its over.
    What would go first? Who knows. But it wont be SS, because the elderly, and soon to become elderly are a huge voting block. If SS got cut off, there would be an uprising, everyone affected by it would be highly upset, and that not only mean the actual recipients, but their families also.
    We can complain about the SS system, but the fact remains that all of us who worked all our lies had this money stolen from us, and we are owed it back.
     
  5. stayingthegame

    stayingthegame Well-Known Member

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    I often wonder if we should let the government shut down and start trying to fix the things that work and write off the things that don't. I also wonder how many of our friendly countries will help us out and how many of them will try to collect on us? maybe we should just lock the doors and let the :shtf: . we can see who is left standing and who falls down.
     
  6. BillS

    BillS Well-Known Member

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    Any shutdown in the next month will be temporary. But a time is coming when the government will go completely bankrupt. Once they can't borrow money they'll just print it. Eventually the dollar will be worth nothing.

    If the government temporarily defaults there could be some serious repercussions from that. It could lead to America's debt being downgraded and/or other countries not wanting to lend us money anymore. It's also possible that Obama will reject any debt ceiling compromise because he wants the government to default.
     
  7. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

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    I remember the US federal govt 'shutdowns' of 1995 and 1996 that took place after Clinton vetoed the spending bill which Congress sent him, the federal govt put non-essential govt workers on furlough and suspended non-essential services from November 14 through November 19, 1995 and from December 16, 1995 to January 6, 1996.
     
  8. Turtle

    Turtle Well-Known Member

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    Good thing that I am considered essential!:D
     
  9. horseman09

    horseman09 Well-Known Member

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    IMHO it is time to let the gubermint shut down pending a balanced budget.

    Just who the hell do they think they are?!

    If I took out massive loans in my kids', grandkids', and greatgrandkids' names which they would be obligated to repay when they came of age, every decent human would would call me the most fowl names known to man -- and they would be right!

    But that is precisely what the gubermint has done, and what do we do? We re-elect them.:mad:

    IMHO the only thing that will save America is a Constitutional Amendment requiring a balanced budget.
     
  10. Magus

    Magus Scavenger deluxe

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    I'm on SSI and stamps but you know what?
    Let the Treasonous F*****s who sold us out twist in the abyss.I could eat polk salad if it meant watching the B-tards burn.
    once we fix things we'll have it like it used to be.
     
  11. Immolatus

    Immolatus Just getting started. Always.

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    I was interested to hear from someone who(theoretically at least, I dont think this will happen) would be affected like this. The SSI payments will continue to be made until the gubt actually goes broke, I think that will be one of the last (defense would be last, right?) things ever cut. The previous shutdowns were a joke. My gf worked for the feds (still does) during those shutdowns and it was a paid vacation for her.

    I hope (and assume, since you are here) that you would be good to go if the worst were to happen. I will take that to mean (or lets just assume for the sake of discussion, because there will certainly be a lot of people in that boat) that you would have zero income were the gubt to fold? I guess that would really happen to everyone were it to get that bad. When the gubt collapses noone would have any income at all, duh.
     
  12. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

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    (some members of) my family has been trying to get me to file for disability for a few years now & I have resisted mainly because I felt that I might lose my independence, not to mention I feel I still have the capability to 'take care of business'...

    ... Did I really do the right thing? :dunno: or should I have 'grabbed what I could while I could?... :dunno: :gaah:
     
  13. Turtle

    Turtle Well-Known Member

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    I give you a lot of credit for not taking the easy way out and living off of the government's dime. I've seen too many people abuse the system and take money that they don't deserve or need. As a taxpayer, thank you for not being a lazy slug. :beercheer:
     
  14. TheAnt

    TheAnt Aesops Ant (not Aunt)

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    Glad to hear you feel that way -- unfortunately nothing is going to get fixed until everyone is willing to admit that the system is broke and anything they paid in is gone and that it will do NOBODY any good to assume everything is fine and still pay these things.

    I assume you mean that noone who is depending on gov't handouts will have any income because there will be LOTS of opportunities to make money even after total meltdown societal SHTF -- especially for those of us that are prepared to thrive. You could probably open Immolatus University of Survival Studies and charge tuition! :cool:
     
  15. Immolatus

    Immolatus Just getting started. Always.

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    I'll give you kudos as well, but I say you should (have) take(n) it. Is it too late? They have been stealing money from you your whole life and using it as they please, you should get any and all you can back. I have always said if the gubt is giving away money, you have to take it for the above reason.

    I assume you mean that noone who is depending on gov't handouts will have any income because there will be LOTS of opportunities to make money even after total meltdown societal SHTF -- especially for those of us that are prepared to thrive. You could probably open Immolatus University of Survival Studies and charge tuition! (how do you do the double quote thing? typing in the code?)

    Sweet! My own Survival School! The gf would die laughing if she heard that!
    I would think if theres a total meltdown, yeah there may be some 'jobs' for specialized skilled labor, but by definition, 'societal meltdown' would mean at least 75% of all traditional 'jobs' would be gone at least temporarily.
    Take one small example. If there is no gasoline to be had, think how many people that would affect. Gas station employees/owners, mechanics, truck drivers who deliver the gas, etc. Not to mention that with no gas, most will not be able to go anywhere anyway.
    If you cant get replacement parts for anything, then you couldnt really fix anything. If theres no oil, then you couldnt run an engine. If theres no food to be had...
    Forget bureaucrats, stock brokers, accountants, most academics, store managers, school teachers, firefighters, cops, anyone working in fast food, grocery stores, retail operations, boy this list could go on forever. How bout we just say that any job that requires wearing a suit or just dressing up would be gone. If you couldnt buy food assuming its available anyway, then what good is a job?
    I highly recommend the "Ishmael" books. They are not about societal breakdown, but more about society/civilization over all.
    We only have jobs because we have been so far removed from our ancient past, where all we had to worry about was food, water, shelter, and protection. Now I, and lets say the 75% (?) of the people in the 'civilized world' have to work for electricity, internet, phone, the house, car, gas, food, health care, blankets, a bed, dishes, coffee and on and on.
    Thumbs up to all who are truly self sufficient and do not have to have a 'job' to get money for stuff. I am guessing that there are truly very few of them, including those homesteaders on this forum. Could you actually live on your won, completely self sufficient, with absolutely no help from the outside world? I'll assume that everyone on this forum would survive, but would your life be completely unaffected? I assume the answer is obviously no, but thats why a lot of us are here, to be as close to that point as possible.
    If SHTF includes a societal meltdown, the bulk of the people will have no 'money' or way to support themselves. Its ultimately why this forum exists. They become the zombie hordes. If you think about it, this will be the huge majority of the population. Basically all of it.
    Now all of this is based on a societal meltdown, not just a gubt shutdown. The PTB wont let the gubt shutdown, because it would mean their jobs. Heads?
     
  16. TheAnt

    TheAnt Aesops Ant (not Aunt)

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    You can click the [​IMG] button next to each post you would like to quote and it will add it in your reply then you can edit as you wish.

    As for opportunities during an 'all out meltdown' there definitely will be opportunities you just have to think outside the box. Any time there is a great upheaval in any market it makes lots of room for making money. In a 'meltdown market' we will be the ones holding many of the chips. Now that being said it does mean we can live like millionaires of today but it can be a good bit better than how you would live otherwise... and better than most millionaires will be doing after 'all out meltdown'. My point about the university is to point out your wealth in knowledge that can sustain life -- that is priceless and can command quite a bit in returns. :beercheer:

    It doesnt all have to be doom and gloom :D
     
  17. Magus

    Magus Scavenger deluxe

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    If and when,likely when it shuts down,I'll be doing much better than I am now.I know edible herbs,how to trap,maintain and even make weapons and my services won't be cheap!:D
     
  18. Immolatus

    Immolatus Just getting started. Always.

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    Thanks. And I couldnt figure that out for myself? Some survival school teacher I'll be!
    And youre right, it shouldnt be all gloom and doom.

    Glad to hear that. I think thats what were all actually hoping, to be better off.
     
  19. worldengineer

    worldengineer Well-Known Member

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    This is an email I got a few days ago. Be it an opinion it still has a high rate of credibility.

    Here's a look at seven myths that the Obama administration is pushing on the American people:

    1) Not increasing the debt ceiling means the U.S. government will default on its debt. This is probably the biggest lie that almost all other claims arise from. Default occurs if the government stops paying interest on the money that it owes. Not increasing the debt ceiling only means that the government can't borrow more money and that spending is limited to the revenue the government brings in. And, with interest payments on the debt making up less than a ninth of revenue, there is no reason for any risk of insolvency.
    Time after time, congress and the president have failed to agree on a debt ceiling increase and still there has been no default. Examples include: December 1973, March 1979, November 1983, December 1985, August 1987, November 1995, December 1995 to January 1996, and September 2007.
    Indeed, this really shouldn't even be a point of debate. The 14th Amendment to the Constitution requires that the debt payments come first before any other spending.

    2) Until the debt ceiling is raised, uncertainty over the payment of U.S. debts will create chaos in financial markets. Given that the Constitution mandates U.S. debts be paid before any other spending and that sufficient money will be available to cover our interest payments, the only uncertainty arises from Obama's actions. Will he try not to pay the interest? Even a delay of a day in paying this interest will create a default. Court action could eventually force Obama to follow the Constitution but a default would have already occurred. But there is a simple way to end this uncertainty: have the president declare now that he will indeed follow the Constitution and make those payments.
    Failure to increase the debt ceiling clearly doesn't mean default. During one three week period at the end of 1996 and the beginning of 1996, some of the government shutdown when a similar battle over the debt ceiling occurred, but there was no default. President Clinton used the revenues that were coming in to pay the interest on the debt.

    3) Obama doesn't know if there is money to send off Social Security checks on August 3. The president knows very well how much revenue will be available to send out checks on August 3. Indeed, enough money will be available to not only pay the interest, but to also cover all Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and children's health insurance, defense, federal law enforcement and immigration, all veterans benefits, Response to natural disasters. Terrifying elderly people who are dependent on their Social Security checks may make good politics, but it is unconscionable. Yet, these scare tactics aren't really very surprising. The Democrats behaved no differently when they ran television ads bizarrely depicting Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) as pushing an old lady in a wheel chair off a cliff.

    4) Mortgage interest rates will rise dramatically if the debt ceiling isn't increased. Not true. Indeed, the opposite is more likely, for not raising the debt ceiling stops the government borrowing more money. Less borrowing by the government could lower mortgage rates as there would be more lending available for potential homeowners. The interest rate paid by the government might go down for a second reason. Just as banks charge individuals a lower interest rate for those who have less debt compared to their incomes, the same is true for governments.

    5) Time is Running Out on Debt Deal, and it must be done immediately. Despite Obama’s insistence that a deal be completed by July 15 and Geithner’s claim that a deal had to be reached by July 22, as already noted, there have been many times over the last few decades where negotiations have extended past when the debt limit has been reached. The longest delay lasted three weeks. Besides claiming that there will be a default, no explanation has been offered for why the debate is any different this time.
    Possibly all these claims of urgency are part of some grand strategy to scare people, but that strategy depends on voters not knowing what is necessary for a default to occur.

    6) If government spending is cut, there will be a depression. Obama promised that a "temporary" increase in government spending would "stimulate" the economy, but he is now telling us that we can't cut that "temporary" increase -- that we are stuck with it.
    If Obama's program -- including a 28 percent spending hike since 2008 and more than $4 trillion in deficits -- worked so well, why has our unemployment rate risen more than elsewhere? The European Union, Canada, South America, Japan, and Australia have all had smaller increases in unemployment compared to the U.S. after Obama's "stimulus." We have also had these shutdowns before and the numbers don’t show any negative impact on unemployment or GDP. Figures for the longest shutdowns during the fourth quarter of 1995 and the first quarter of 1996 are available here.

    7) The value of the dollar will plummet. Again, the supposed collapse occurs when we default. But there won't be any default. In addition, less government borrowing means lower future taxes, thus making the U.S. a more attractive place to invest. More foreign investment will actually cause the dollar to rise.
    It is time for President Obama and his administration to stop scaring people. Cutting government spending back to its 2007 level won't be the end of the world. After all, during the 2008 presidential campaign, Obama himself repeatedly promised “a net spending cut."


    Read more: Seven Myths About the Looming Debt-Ceiling 'Disaster' - FoxNews.com
     
  20. DJgang

    DJgang I put SAs on IGNORE!

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    :shtf: :shtf:

    I've been here since April and didn't know that smiley existed...

    I just wanted to use it.