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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is this crazy financial roller coaster leading up to the big event, or will it be a black swan?
 

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The wanderer
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Hard to say. We've come close so many times and seen things come back together. One of these times it'll catch us somewhat off guard and the S really will HTF.

The world economy is faltering and our nation's stock market is taking quite a tumble right now...but we've seen it do that and then pull out again. Will it this time? :dunno:
 

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I just think we can only be lucky so many times in contemporary times. The last time things went bad was in 1929, and I remember my grandmothers stories as a young mother trying to make it, she had been abandoned by my grandfather for "greener pastures" with three little kids. I remember the woman did not throw ANYTHING out, not a thing, even a spoonful of mashed potatoes on Thanksgiving was used the next day, for something...

It rubbed off on me, and even my mother (this was her mother-in-law) and of course my mother grew up in broken family that struggled. Then, my parents had six of us, which takes me to how I grew up in the 70's so old-fashioned. Clothing was worn till it could not be, same with shoes and socks. Gifts were often made, toys were only on a birthday or Christmas. Food was portioned out, and leftovers ALWAYS used (roasted chicken one night, chicken soup the next). Offers of excess game meat taken, overage of salmon from relatives fishing trips taken, trout....you catch it, you eat it.

My husband and I have struggled, and although seems things have come around a little (now that the kids are teens/adults), we still live simply, it's habit for me, had become so for him.

What the trendy are now considering either "living sustainably" or trendy to eat, is simply old-fashioned living made fashionable, while many of us have lived this was all along, those who have not seem to htink it is something new and "cool" to do or eat.

These are the people I wonder how they will fare when SHTF?.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
These are the people I wonder how they will fare when SHTF?.....
I was one of those successful types with a great paying job, wife had left her full time job to work part time after we got married to help her kids get settled in their new life... Right up until I was one of the millions in middle management to suddenly not have anything. I returned to school and picked up my MBA. One thing that did was to scare the hell out of me, especially having a prof that was a retired exec from the federal reserve.

Sudden loss of most of the family income completely changed our way of thinking. Now we are gardening and canning to the point of being an obsession. While our food bill is still way too high, much of it is due to prepping, such as buying mason jars, or getting bulk sugar and other staples. I need to really push on getting our electric usage down to a reasonable level, but with two teenager daughters that couldn't find a light switch if their electric hair devices was taped to it, makes it tough.

We're not quite prepared as much as I'd like, still have a few tic points, but slowly getting there. I look at some of my neighbors and other friends, and they are totally living on the edge.

The whole peak oil scenario probably has me the most worried. worldwide oil usage is increasing, production has leveled out, and become extraction becoming exponentially more difficult and expensive.
 

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I saw some program on the Great Depression. It said that the stock market crash of 1929 made it so more money was lost than existed in the economy. If something like that happened today the Fed would ramp up the printing presses. Maybe that would fix it. Maybe not.

I think an unstable stock market makes the economy worse. Retired people have less money in their 401k's and they're not going to be able to spend as much.

I think the problems with the stock market are a reflection of the problems with the world economy. Greece or Spain or Italy could default and that would create a global economic crisis. The Fed would come to the rescue and print trillions. That could cause the dollar to lose its status as the world reserve currency.

I'm more nervous right now. I want to buy some kerosene heaters but Home Depot doesn't have them yet. Same thing with kerosene. You can buy one gallon cans but not five gallon cans yet. Most likely by September.
 

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BillM
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1929 vs 2011

In 1929 when the depression hit , the U S was still an agrarian society .

Only 17% of Americans worked outside of the farming industry.

Now in 2011, 2% of the population feed the rest of us.

If it happens again, the average American will starve.

During WWII , Americans were encouraged to grow Victory gardens.

They still knew how. Now they don't

Even people who grow gardens , don't have the knowledge to grow food on a subsistence level.

My wife's grand Father knew how to subsistence farm.

He knew how much corn to plant per person in the family , how much of each item of food it took and how many hogs to kill and how to cure the meat and render the lard.

I once asked him why he grew so much when he was old and unable to do the work. I tried to encourage him to just plant a small garden.

He told me he knew he should but it had become a lifetime habit.

He said he was taught as a child to plant five times what you thought you would need so that if there was a drought or insects that infected your crops, you would still have enough !

How big is your garden?
 

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My garden is approximately 4000 square feet and not nearly big enough. Yet as per usual we had planted more than we can reasonably care for and more than we can harvest.

Then it hailed. Some things have survived better than other things, although it set everything back and some of it may get frost before it matures as a result.

Next year I will be using far more garden space and planting way more stuff, way further apart so that it can be worked with field equipment. Cuts the weeding back to what we may be able to do. Fuel cost will go up and water costs will go down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Weeds are easy, shredded newspaper and cut grass clippings :)
 

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There will come a day when no matter what magic trick the Fed tries they won't be able to stop the inevatable. The truth will catch up with all the lies we have been told concerning the economy and the world as we know it will come tumbling down. Grow your garden, put back the excess, pay attention to what you use everyday and stock up. Start now teaching yourself and your family to be frugal.
 

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In 1929 when the depression hit , the U S was still an agrarian society .

Only 17% of Americans worked outside of the farming industry.

Now in 2011, 2% of the population feed the rest of us.

If it happens again, the average American will starve.

During WWII , Americans were encouraged to grow Victory gardens.

They still knew how. Now they don't

Even people who grow gardens , don't have the knowledge to grow food on a subsistence level.

My wife's grand Father knew how to subsistence farm.

He knew how much corn to plant per person in the family , how much of each item of food it took and how many hogs to kill and how to cure the meat and render the lard.

I once asked him why he grew so much when he was old and unable to do the work. I tried to encourage him to just plant a small garden.

He told me he knew he should but it had become a lifetime habit.

He said he was taught as a child to plant five times what you thought you would need so that if there was a drought or insects that infected your crops, you would still have enough !

How big is your garden?
***************************

IMHO, you and your grandfather are absolutely right. Great post.

But in modern, spoiled America, in a real SHTF situation, much of the nation's population would be dead in 6 months from starvation, exposure and butchery. After the first 6 months, the rest of us who survive will be living in fear of our draconian government -- for as long as it could maintain iron-fisted control.

Prepper rural folks (who are prepared per your grandpa) will only survive those first 6 months if they can defend their homes and resources from the zombies -- something your grandpa didn't have to do.

initially, police/military will concentrate on the urban areas until much of the city population is gone. Stored gubermint supplies will run out and the FEMA camp masses will bust out and begin dispersing into the country out of despiration.

In the mean time, anarchy and savagery will rule in the boondocks because calls for police protection will be nonexistent. Our ancestors lived and died much the same way with Indian raids. The real question is........do modern prepper Americans have the same grit to cope with such horrors -- and still go on?
 

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Texas!!!
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During WWII , Americans were encouraged to grow Victory gardens.

They still knew how. Now they don't

Even people who grow gardens , don't have the knowledge to grow food on a subsistence level.

My wife's grand Father knew how to subsistence farm.

He knew how much corn to plant per person in the family , how much of each item of food it took and how many hogs to kill and how to cure the meat and render the lard.
Gardening At A Glance by Tanya Denckla tells you how many plants you need per person. It is invaluable. She also tells you what plants grow best in what parts of the country. And lists companions/enemies for each plant.

I also found that I could double my yields by using raised beds. It cut my weeding time in half, too. This is my second summer in TX so I am still learning.
 

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Member
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Go to flea markets, yard sales or auctions. I just got 3 metal 5 gallon cans last Sat.

10,000 square feet. :D
150x150....22,500 in summer garden spot. Winter plot is 75x100...

I eat just about exclusivly out of my garden....year around...:2thumb:

Jimmy
 

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BillM I agree with you, society was completely different then, and now people would suffer should it all go downhill. I heard many stories from my grandmother about how tough it was. Her way of life afterwards was to not throw anything out, nothing. Even when it was something deemed useless, she had seen so much want in those times in her life and all around her, it was just ingrained in her to make use of everything she could.

I feel fortunate where we live, plenty of good clean water everywhere, and plenty of wood for fuel, in the least. Lots of blackberries (they are weeds here, but are edible and plentiful, so...). Lots of rivers with fish (which I do not like, but there again, plentiful).

partdeux, glad to see you were some of the few who woke up and realized the gravy train will not go on like it always had been. Honestly, having grown up in a large, cash strapped family, making due was always part of my life, and as an adult, it has been too, so I have not known anything different. So much so for your teens, they live in a world when everything seems it is instantaneously at their fingertips, and that is hard to make them see beyond. Being teens, they know it all, they are cooler than anyone else, and their parents are just nuts. Take it from me, I have a 28 year old, 18 year old and 14 year old. The 28 year old just does not get it, she thinks this is a new lifestyle, or hobby......

The "yuppies" in the local metro area simply think this is all something new and fashionable, and this tells me it is a passing thing and they do think things will stay good forever, and they will never have to think about their next meal, or how to really survive when/if they lose their cushy public and private sector jobs.

Bill, my garden was 1,350 square feet, probably not big enough, a first year garden, and the soil was not good. We moved in here December first, and had no time to do much about it, but to plant and work it while we tried. We hope next year we will have it improved, and also that we can get an earlier start. Also, weather here in the NW this year, and last, has been mediocre. Not enough sunny days to get things going and to ripen. Of course all squash varieties are doing fine. maybe the potatoes, no corn, tomatoes are small and green yet, green beans are coming in little by little, carrots might mature, and possibly some onions.

I will just try to get as much out of it as I can, and then have to go out and u-pick, or get cull produce where I can to round it all out. We did "harvest" 12 young rabbits we raised, some red broilers, but doing more Cornish Cross.

I am hoping to get hold of two each of apple and pear trees, plus two nice sized blueberry bushes to plant in fall. We got some raspberries, four, and one of them produced some berries, essentially a handful, but next year should be better. Strawberries are struggling, I am replanting them in fall into a raised bed, they seem to do better this way.
 
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