It's coming... (eye scanners)

Discussion in 'International Current News & Events' started by gypsysue, Aug 18, 2010.

  1. horseman09

    horseman09 Well-Known Member

    We Americans are absolute fools if we allow this sort of total government control into our lives.

  2. kogneto

    kogneto The Skeptic

    "I for one welcome our new robot overlords"
  3. Bigdog57

    Bigdog57 Adventurer at large

    Heck, I am holding out for the "Instant Blood and Urine Test" for a really secure world! If you are going to embrace the heady technology of the BioScan, lets go All The Way! :D
  4. Woody

    Woody Woodchuck

    Unfortunately most of these technological innovations will not be a choice. Take the national ID that keeps coming up. There are those of us who do not want it and will fight not to sign up but we will not have a choice. Without it there will be no paying property taxes, drivers’ license renewal, flying, turning in your US dollars for NWO currency or anything without having one of these cards that will have too much personal information on them. Sure, some will be able to hold out but in the end it will happen. We let our government get way too big and instead of them existing to serve us, we slave to serve them. You can choose to not pay taxes and what happens? The holdouts will be few because most of the population can not survive w/out all that they have come to NEED, not require to survive.

    I am an optimist but at the same time I am a realist.

    Best we can do is strive to setup our lives so that big brother will have the least impact we can manage. The powers that be raise taxes on something I like, I find a workaround to avoid paying them for the opportunity to use it. That does not mean they win by me not enjoying it, I just do not let them profit from my choice. The vast majority of the population does not even think of this as an option, they will just do whatever is asked of them.
  5. kogneto

    kogneto The Skeptic

    for being an optimist you seem very intent that the national ID will go through, despite the complete lack of evidence that any bill or motion is going through the government to enact it

    taxes are a necessity, i enjoy driving on paved roads, flying in safe airplanes, living in a house that is structurally sound, and using the internet, but then that's just me
  6. mosquitomountainman

    mosquitomountainman I invented the internet. :rofl:

    Taxes are a necessity just as a lot of things are but privacy should be a major concern of everyone. It's great to have the bully on the block as your best friend until the bully turns on you. Power needs restraint. Anyone who trusts any government to do the right thing is just plain foolish.
  7. townparkradio

    townparkradio Family Friendly DJ

    I'm of two minds on this. Part of me is all for it because frankly? I wouldn't have the identity theft issues I'm undergoing right now if such a system existed...

    Then there's the other part of me that's seriously annoyed, who needs THAT much information on us? However, that part of me, while annoyed.. doesn't really care, but for cynical reasons. There's not a single thing I can do to stop this any more than my father's generation could stop nationwide credit bureaus coming into existence. What's it matter if I never once step in front of an optical identification system? One way or another, they'll get the information on me anyway and lump me into the database without my consent, so why get worked up over it?

    Let the government do what it wants; I'm trying to get off the grid and below their radar anyway.. a lower profile means less hassle. The best way to achieve total invisibility is to simply not be worth seeing. Blargh. Back to trying to sleep.
  8. JeepHammer

    JeepHammer Well-Known Member

    It would just be TERRIBLE if all your medical records were linked,
    And if you were in an accident, they scan your iris and have all that information, friends and family can be notified, any allergies would be known, test results would be known, they would find out right away if you had medical implants that couldn't go through an MRI, ect.

    It would just be TERRIBLE if you didn't have to worry about identity loss since with a quick look in a scanner they could VERIFY if it was you or not, no more stolen identities since they don't have the eyes to go with it...

    If you don't like what is going on, the beauty of this country is you can VOTE AGAINST IT,
  9. UncleJoe

    UncleJoe Well-Known Member

    That's one of the biggest jokes being perpetrated on us. I have written to my "representatives" on COUNTLESS issues in the last few years. I have NEVER received a personal reply; just the standard form letter saying "Thank you for your input. I will keep your views in mind as I review and vote on this bill."
    Legislators have their own agenda and the opinion of the average constituent plays very little, if at all, into their decision.
  10. mosquitomountainman

    mosquitomountainman I invented the internet. :rofl:

  11. townparkradio

    townparkradio Family Friendly DJ

    Relax. Everyone's trying to be friends with you and you're constantly picking fights. I used to be a lot like you, with some secret belief that I was smarter than everyone else around me, and anyone who didn't agree with my views exactly was some degree of idiot.

    Then I got a little time and life experience under my belt. Now, I'm still mostly liberal; but I've grown as a person enough to realize that there are other viewpoints in this world, and my way may not be the only one, and my way may not even be correct. You can't just.. I dunno.. leave high school, put a few layers of shellac on your knowledge and opinions, and call it done. You have to truly understand what it is that tolerance MEANS.

    I married into a fairly hard Christian, right wing family. We get on just fine, because neither me nor the family I married into have this burning desire to try and make the other think exactly like ourselves. The reason is that we're secure enough in our beliefs and politics enough to let it ride, joust every now and then, and walk out of it still filled with love for one another. That and, having grown up in Chicago, I knew Obama was a conviction and effort devoid manchild who throws temper tantrums and attacks others and even overturns the will of the people when he can't get his way. I can't believe anyone voted for a man who got his first office by disqualifying his opponents at the last hour before primary qualifications because a lot of the signatures.. including my own brother's.. opponents had collected were in print instead of cursive. This technicality is now off the books in Chicago because of the "audacity" of that move... and it was all public record.. but I digress. It's clear I don't mindlessly tow a party line anyway, but there are a massive lot of points the family and I disagree on.

    Back on target here.. one hallmark of a truly intelligent being is knowing when it's useless to be offensive and pick fights with people who mean you no harm and do you no harm. Live and let live. It's best to take the time to develop wisdom with which to use that tool. Diversity of opinion is a good thing, and so is discussion OF these opinions.. but if you come into it with a hard head and closed mind, you are not actually using intelligence. Intelligence learns and carefully parses what others are saying, and considers them before responding; it does not stereotype others based on a few queues and then start spewing the "gotcha" rebuffs hoarded up over the years as a dragon hoards gold.

    Relax. Try having discussions instead of trying to score points on the imaginary chalkboard of some game played only in your mind. Also, stop expecting people to have credulity, man. When you say ridiculous things like "90% of high school dropouts are conservative voters" you'd better well be able to back that up with layered and peer-reviewed studies published in respectable sources. You come off petulant and vaguely fanatical when you make extraordinary claims and do not have extraordinary proof immediately at hand.
  12. sailaway

    sailaway Well-Known Member

    I think I will be gone the day everyone gets an info chip inserted under their skin!:eek:
  13. Diego2112

    Diego2112 Well-Known Member

    I'd like to share an excerpt from one of my favorite authors, Alan Moore (slightly altered, he says "London," not "Sheeples!" :D)

    Good evening, Sheeples. I thought it was time we had a little talk. Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin...

    I suppose you're wondering why I've called you here this evening. Well, you see, I'm not entirely satisfied with your performance lately... I'm afraid your work's been slipping and... and well, I'm afraid we've been thinking about letting you go.

    Oh, I know, I know. You've been with the company a long time now. Almost... let me see. Almost ten thousand years! My word, doesn't time fly? It seems like only yesterday... I remember the day you commenced your employment, swinging down from the trees, fresh-faced and nervous, a bone clasped in your bristling fist...

    "Where do I start, sir?", you asked, plaintively. I recalled my exact words: "There's a pile of dinosaur eggs over there, youngster", I said, smiling paternally all the while. "Get sucking".

    Well, we've certainly come a long way since then, haven't we? And yes, yes, you're right, in all that time you haven't missed a day. Well done, thou good and faithful servant!

    Also, please don't think I've forgotten about your outstanding service record, or about all of the invaluable contributions that you've made to the company... Fire, the wheel, agriculture... It's an impressive list, old-timer. A jolly impressive list. Don't get me wrong. But... well, to be frank, we've had our problems too. There's no getting away from it.

    Do you know what I think a lot of it stems from? I'll tell you... It's your basic unwillingness to get on in the company. You don't seem to want to face up to any real responsibility. To be your own boss. Lord knows you've been given plenty of opportunities... We've offered you promotion time and time again, and each time you've turned us down. "I couldn't handle the work, Guv'Nor", you wheedled. "I know my place". To be frank, you're not trying, are you?

    You see, you've been standing still for far too long, and its starting to show in your work... And, I might add, in your general standard of behavior. The constant bickering on the factory floor has not escaped my attention... nor the recent bouts of rowdiness in the staff canteen.

    Then of course there's... Hmm. Well, I didn't really want to have to bring this up, but... Well, you see, I've been hearing some disturbing rumors about your personal life. No, never you mind who told me. No names, no pack drill... I understand you are unable to get on with your spouse. I hear that you argue. I am told that you shout. Violence has been mentioned. I am reliably informed that you always hurt the one your love... the one you shouldn't hurt at all.

    And what about the children, its always the children who suffer, as you're well aware. Poor little mites. What are they to make of it? What are they to make of all your bullying, your despair, your cowardice and all your fondly nurtured bigotries? Really, its not good enough, is it?

    And its no good blaming the drop in work standards on and management either... though to be sure, the management is very bad. In fact, let us not mince words... The Management is terrible! We've had a string of embezzelers, frauds, liars and lunatics making a string of catastrophic decisions. This is plain fact. But who elected them? It was you! You who elected these people! You who gave them the power to make your decisions for you!

    While I'll admit that anyone can make a mistake once, to go on making the same lethal errors century after century seems to me nothing short of deliberate. You have encouraged these malicious incompetents, who have made your working life a shambles. You have accepted without question their senseless orders. You have allowed them to fill your workspace with dangerous and unproven machines. You could have stopped them.

    All you had to say was "No". You have no spine. You have no pride. You are no longer an asset to the company. I will, however, be generous. You will be granted two years to show me some improvement in your work. If at the end of that time you are still unwilling to make a go of it... you're fired. That will be all. You may return to your labours. - Codename "V" (V for Vendetta [:rant:the GRAPIC NOVEL, not that CRAP that was called a movie!!!])

    WHEW... Somehow, I feel that applies here. Make what you will of it, but Justice is MEANINGLESS without Freedom.

    -the above statement are my views, my opinions, and to be taken as such. Right or wrong, it's what I wholeheartedly believe.

    If you have a problem with something that Big Brother is doing, simply put your foot down in the ballot box! Like Codename V said, "All you had to say was 'No.'" So, if you dont want eyescanners, or if you DO want eyescanners, then get out this November and VOTE! Personally, I'm with what some of the members have in their sigs: "November, if they're IN, they're OUT!"
  14. townparkradio

    townparkradio Family Friendly DJ

    Hey, here comes a rant, wish I knew how to make that neat tag... but this will be a rant written off the cuff by myself:

    Much like the credit bureaus of my father's generation, your vote has nothing whatsoever to do with it in the slightest fashion. Voting won't stop the marching on of progress and the advance of technology, and quoting a guy who has spent his entire life _carefully_ offending people for profit won't change that either. Moore's writing has not been one of free thought or deconstruction, it's been one of learning what is popular and polite, and trying to do the exact opposite while stopping just short of taking even the slightest stand on any actual issue.

    Read the quote you posted. Read it again. And again. Read it over and over and over until you can see past the "hey that's subversive and therefore AWESOME!" layer and realize that it's not SAYING anything except "rebel against what is". It offers no solutions, it offers no plan for afterwards, it is an incredibly long and drawn out collection of paragraphs that simply says "screw anyone in authority or who asks for respect, from your family, your country, your HISTORY all the way up to the government." That and a huge dose of contempt for "the masses", which is always a way to score points with disaffected youths who have plenty of pocket money to spend. It's a great speech but hey, Obama gives great speeches that don't mean anything as well.

    Hope and change... from what? to what? Rebel. Against what and WHY?

    Purposeless rebellion is as useless as complacent acceptance, except it kills people faster and provides a far less safe environment to live in for the people who are HAPPY living their lives in a peaceful way, the ones who choose to just get by as best they can.

    Sometimes rebellion is necessary. It ousts the old, changes things sometimes for the better, often for the worse, and the family men and women are the ones that always die for the ideals of both sides of any rebellion. But you know one thing every successful rebellion, "good" or "bad" has had in common? A PURPOSE. You can't just say "screw the system" and tear it down and leave it at that. Reality doesn't work that way. That merely creates anarchy, and anarchy is simply a transitional state. This has been true throught all of history. "Anarchy" has never worked, ever, and it never will. When you remove all centralized authority, then it quickly becomes a matter of the strong the ruling over the weak, or the weak banding their own meager strength together to protect themselves, forming this thing generally referred to as a "government".

    As for me? I stated why I don't care about it. It would be helpful in my particular situation, and it's not like it can be stopped. If the government wants information on you, it's going to have it. If the government decides you need to be vanished, you will vanish. Activate your BS sensor. if someone like Alex Jones was so "dangerous" and the government was trying to "shut him down" why, they'd shut him down and claim they found thousands of child porn pictures on his computer. If he's "public enemy #1" why is he permitted to have a nationally syndicated radio show? Because entertainers like Alan Moore and Alex Jones are a nice safe distraction, that's why. If people spend their lives rebelling against authority but not QUITE crossing the line into any organized rebellious behavior, or spend their lives worrying about frickin' contrails and the effects of fluoride in their water, they will become a happy complacent bunch of black sheep in the herd who can never get their ducks in a row well enough to pay attention to truly important issues.

    Real rebellion, real CHANGE will never occur while people follow a cult of personality rather than a cult of ideals. Range up and down, and think for yourself, rather than parroting the words of someone who spews out the words "think for yourself" and makes you feel like you are when you're simply following a darker herd.

    Shoot, don't even take MY word for anything, don't quote ME. What the heck do I know? I'm just an idiot like the rest of us. I might be entirely full of BS myself. Focus your energies on the world around you and learn from it.

    Enough of shutting down the ideas presented (or actually the LACK of ideas), let's just take a moment to poison the well here. Yes, I am willingly barreling headfirst into a logical fallacy to make a point. Moore claims to despise the movie adaptations of his work so much; saying they prostitute his great works... (mind you this comes from a guy who wrote hypersexualized versions of fairy tales recognized as great works of art and turns the females in them into literal prostitutes)... but he has no trouble cashing the royalty checks when they come in. I wish I could find the clip.. he was interviewed about the new Watchmen movie about this, had that pointed out during the interview, and he instantly began swearing at the reporter so vehemently he was literally drooling all over himself. Frankly, I don't care what someone who operates under that astounding a level of hypocrisy and lack of self control has to say on ANY subject.

    You might as well quote Ted Bundy while you're at it. It's entertainment. It's deep, visceral fun. It's wonderful escapism. In fact, it's GREAT entertainment! The man revitalized an industry almost singlehandedly. But that's all it is. There are plenty of real philosophers, many whom died for their "heresy" (religious and otherwise) you can read if you want to expose your mind to new ideas rather than brainless reflexive contrariness... rather than some (rather intelligent and excellent at manipulation) dude who sees more green enter his pocket every time he insults something.
  15. JeepHammer

    JeepHammer Well-Known Member

    That would be the paid pundits that stir up everything for profit.
    It's always amazed me how easy it is to get the 'Sleeping Masses' to fall for anything at all...
    Everything from 'Pet Rocks' to 'Hate Obama'!


    This is one of those issues that was dragged up after a MOVIE!
    That Tom Cruise movie, "MINORITY REPORT" where they had the little robot 'Spiders' running through the building checking eye scans...

    Sure beats a Swat team shooting up the place!

    I just love these guys going bonkers over something in a movie!
    (Having a hard time separating fact from fiction?)

    They still can't make a coffee machine that starts on time!
    What makes you think they are going to come through with 'Eye Scanning Spiders' anytime in the near future!?

    Are these the same guys that buy guns because they saw 'Predator' once too often and through Arnold was too soft?


    I recently had a health scare,
    Severe pain in my extreme lower back,
    Went to the 'Doctor',

    First, my doctor retired, I'd been going to him since I was a kid.
    I guess at 90 he was entitled to retire, but a note from the medical clinic where he practiced would have been nice...

    Couldn't hardly walk,
    Made an appointment with my 'Doctor',
    Got the the appointment and got a 'Physician Assistant' instead of my regular doctor,
    Which immediately gave me a 10 minute lecture on my pain killer use,
    And the benefits of prayer :rolleyes:.

    Never mind that I hadn't had a bowel moment or urinated in 4 days,
    Never mind I was running 103° Fever,
    Never mind that I had INTENSE pain in my lower back/rectum that kept me from sitting down or walking (hobble holding onto things)

    Then I got a little upset and informed the guy that a 'REAL DOCTOR' would be more concerned that I hadn't been able to do basic biological functions for four days and that I couldn't walk and was running 103° & 104° fevers for the fourth straight day in a row...

    Then he had a look,
    Found a SERIOUS problem...
    And said he couldn't take care of it there because he wasn't a 'Doctor'! (What did I just say!)...
    I needed to walk over to the emergency room and see a 'Real Doctor'.

    Then he launched into a rant about,
    "Gay men should expect problems like this since they are 'Going against God'"...

    Yup, I took a swing at him,

    Not as much for the 'Gay Man' crack, but more for the crack about 'Going Against God'...
    Ignoring SERIOUS problems & Symptoms, dragging his draconian religious beliefs into my health care,
    Making completely false assumptions, and then insulting my intelligence was just more than I could take...

    But due to the seriousness of the problem, I barely clipped him on the chin.
    I fully intended to take his head off, but just flat missed.

    Funny, I FINALLY got his attention when I tried to take his head off...
    I'm 50, not as fast as I once was, and with serious health problems (Running 103° fever kind of disrupts your aim a little also!)


    So I hobbled across to the emergency room with help from my wife,
    And checked into the emergency room, where I spent over 7 hours on MASSIVE pain killers, something called 'Delodid' (Spelling?).
    Cool packs for the fever, blood tests showed the white cell count was through the roof, which ment a LARGE infection somewhere (I could guess where!),
    Cat scans, two local surgeons passed on taking care of the 'Issue' locally,

    Then a 1-1/2 trip to a larger hospital for a specialist to take care of the Issue with surgery.
    Yup, I had to RIDE on that same problem for 2-1/2 hours to find a REAL DOCTOR with enough skills to solve what is basically a MINOR problem for a 'Real' surgeon...

    Had EMERGENCY surgery 20 minutes after arriving at the larger hospital.
    Gave a MASSIVE dose of pain killer for the ride,
    And damned little pain killer for the surgery!


    Ask the emergency room doctor about the pain killer use issue,
    He said he couldn't comment since he didn't have my medical records.

    Ask the surgeon about the cat scans, (Which were $6,000!) and the pain killer issue... He said he couldn't comment since none of that made it into the file that they gave us to take to the bigger hospital.

    Had surgery, got the 'Issue' solved, dodged a bullet on Cancer, removed before it could spread and probably wouldn't have been found at the doctor's office, or the smaller hospital,
    One of the most dangerous forms of cancer since it so often goes undetected...


    If the scanner and central storage were in place,
    EVERY doctor would have been able to verify my identity,
    EVERY doctor would have had access to my medical records,
    I wouldn't have needed the SECOND set of Cat scans (Another $6,000!) at the larger hospital...


    I broke my back for the THIRD time in '06.
    (Neck also broke once),
    According to the pain management doctor I'm seeing now,
    I'm being prescribed less than 1/5 the 'Standard' dosages,
    And I'm being prescribed 3 steps weaker pain killers than the 'Average' guy with this back I've got.

    Since I don't take but about half of what's prescribed, it's much less than what the pain management doctor thinks...
    I just don't like that 'Dopey' feeling, so I don't take them for minor pains, just when I've over done things...

    So the 'Physician's Assistant' didn't have a clue what he was talking about, and gave me a lecture over nothing... Including the totally INAPPROPRIATE lecture on 'The Power Of Prayer'...

    The surgeon in the larger hospital that did the work seemed amazed that I didn't fill his pain killer prescription, stronger stuff that I don't like and didn't want to take.


    Anyway, I would LOVE to have that $6,000 in overlapping Cat scans back, but that's not going to happen,
    I would have LOVED to have answers from REAL DOCTORS, but medical records can't seem to make it across the street in a 7 hour workday,

    I would LOVE for the pain management doctor to get my records in less than 6 weeks, but he had to send a nurse to FINALLY manually get them after the 3rd visit without them...

    I would LOVE to get my prescriptions refilled without having to jump through hoops, and a simple eye scan would do that very thing...

    Since it would cut out the 'Doctor Shopping' under different names and I could get a prescription called in instead of having to drive 70 miles round trip to get the physical prescription and then wait to have it verified...

    I would LOVE to catch the SOB that gained access to my credit information and jacked up a bunch of problems getting loans in my name...
    That took 3 years to clear up, and it still shows up on my credit report!
    (I've been at the same address for 12 years, wonder why they would issue credit accounts to 14 address over 150 miles from my home?!)


    Now, I know these are PRACTICAL uses for the technology,
    And sometimes 'Practical' isn't what guys in full rant mode want to hear.
    These are just SOME of the applications that would have benefited me in the past few years...

    Take it for what it's worth.


    Reality of living in a 'Rural' area or 'Secondary Market'...

    What do you call the guy DEAD LAST in his medical class?
    You call him DOCTOR,

    Even though he was dead last in his class, couldn't keep from drinking the bong water and slept through most of his classes,
    'Daddy' shelled out enough for him to stay in school in some third world banana country and he got through 'Medical School'...

    Now he can't find a job in major markets since he couldn't hack it in a 'Real' medical school, has no specialty, doesn't remember WEEKS of his medical school from drunken/drug induced blackouts,
    He's STILL a 'Doctor' in a secondary market!

    Scary thought, isn't it!?
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2010
  16. mdprepper

    mdprepper I sold my soul to The_Blob. He had candy...

    I work for a large national retail store. We offer one of those frequent shopper/loyalty card deals. I am shocked at how many people say "No, I do not want that because -they will track my spending- have too much information on me- it is too invasive" then pull out a CREDIT CARD/DEBIT CARD to pay for their purchases! Umm, hello, they are already tracking your spending!!!
  17. JeepHammer

    JeepHammer Well-Known Member

    Eye scanners in retail stores other than for identifying for credit purposes probably won't happen...
    They already track your purchases through credit cards, discount 'Club' cards, ect.

    Now the 'I-Phone's are tracked at most major malls, and it's spreading to smaller malls as we speak.
    By tracking the phone on the premises, they can tell where you shopped, where you stopped, how long you lingered at this place or that place, ect.
    By comparing that with purchase records, you wind up finding out what displays had you standing there looking, and for how long...
    (How effective the advertisements/window displays were.)

    Now, if you don't have a 'Smart Phone', you aren't in their demographic anyway.
    You aren't buying the 'Latest, greatest, newest, 'Coolest', or whatever...

    MUCH easer to track you through that phone than eye scanner, which you CAN'T DO at long range,
    But the phone ANNOUNCES you are there and can't wait to sing out to the information collectors...

    No sense in creating/advancing a technology that is going to cost hundreds of millions, maybe BILLIONS of dollars and will have a bunch of tin foil hat wearing types screaming about it...

    When the 'Smart Phone' technology is already here, up and running, and seamlessly integrating your movements/spending habits into their systems.
    If you are carrying a 'Smart Phone', spending cash won't even protect you from snooping/collecting information.

    I was at the mall the other day looking for gift, paid cash, and my NAME WAS ON THE RECEIPT when I got it!
    I asked how they know my name, and even through I didn't use my 'Smart Phone' or RFID credit cards, the scanners were still on and knew who was standing in front of the counter when I made the CASH purchase, and the stupid scanners were reading the info off my RFID credit card and phone!

    What REALLY bothers me is the advertisements that are coming over the phone...
    I hadn't even got parked when the ads started, and continued the ENTIRE time I was in the mall!

    Now I take the battery out while I'm in the mall, and pick up messages when I'm done,

    And my NEXT PHONE will NOT be a SMART PHONE!
  18. Magus

    Magus Scavenger deluxe


    Heh...we will,and probably cheer it.we threw away a perfectly functional Republic for a Democracy which is rapidly evolving into a Socialist state.

    I'm afraid its pretty close to being over.
  19. Diego2112

    Diego2112 Well-Known Member

    Another Rant, More Quotes, Tee hee hee!

    Well, I HAD worked up a GREAT rebuttle, but when I went to get ONE more quote, I lost it all because I forgot to use a new tab... Here goes again (somewhat shorter, I'm afraid):

    I like Alan Moore not because of his "careful offending" or because he goes AGAINST mainstream sheeples etc, but rather because he's a good writer. I only just found him a couple of years ago, and that IS a pitty. Had I known of him in HIGHSCHOOL, I would have had a better wording of my views! What Codename V said in my above post is EXACTLY how I feel about it (see my qualifier talking about getting out and voting, please). I've wrote papers on the matter (and yes, some DO call for Anarchy, because there is a HUGE misconception about it, but I'd rather NOT get into that on here for fear of getting BANNED... :D), disciussed ad infinitum with my friends, and even been chastised by my family for the beliefes I hold on the issue. I will not turn, because it's what I believe!!!

    Yes, I know Moore writes what will line his pockets. More's the pitty (no pun intended), because he could lead a movement to change this world where he to try. Then again, what is any MODERN political leader's goal, other than to maintain power over their sheeple, and line their pockets?

    I am NOT saying that America should be turned over to an anarchic state (although again, to referance Moore, Anarchy only means "Without LEADERS," not "Without ORDER," rather, Anarchy is VOLUNTARY order. Sadly, since we live in a fallen world, there's no way this system could ever work, except perhaps in a :shtf: situaiton.). All I'm trying to say is what Thomas Jefferson (or possibly John Basil Barnhill :dunno:) said: When people fear the government, there is TYRANNY. When government fears it's PEOPLE, there is Liberty!

    To expound, Liberty is MEANINGLESS without Freedom! You need BOTH to function.

    You are correct: A rebellion without purpose or direction is both foolhardy and bound to fail. However, I would like to call your attention to yet ANOTHER quote (yes, I know, I like quotes, but they help back my point, rather than just mindless sheeple ranting!):
    Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

    If I have to tell you where THAT came from... :D

    So, what I'm saying is, VOTE! If enough people get out there and make their voice HEARD, then the government MUST listen, or be disposed. America was FOUNDED on this principal!

    Strange, isnt it? Quoting a masked terrorist who only wanted revenge on the government for what they did to him, and quoting the founding fathers of the greatest nation alive, all coming out of the same person...

    Getting your voice heard is the only way to create REAL "Change," rather than the REAL "Chains" we were handed.

    Then again, you look at the Hebrew people, they BEGGED for a King, and look at what it got them! Nothing but trouble.

    So sheeples, again, all you had to say was "NO." But you didnt. And now you wish to COMPLAIN? No dice! You want it to CHANGE? Get out and vote!

    This November, I know where I will be!

    (PS. To make the "ranton" or "rantoff" switch, just type :-ranton-: or :-rantoff-: without the dashes! ;) )
    And JH, I'm going to have to call Troll :eek: on your post about the doctor's visit. I've been in some backwoodsy places before, but I'm YET to meet a doctor/PA-C/EMT/RN/CNA/LPN/WHATEVER that brings "the power of prayer" and "going against God" into it. I've also never been ANYWHERE (other than a boxing match) where you can strike out at a person (even IF you only catch their chin) and NOT be taken out in cuffs. Sorry, I'm going to have to call Troll.

    And almost EVERY hospital in the COUNTRY has access to your medical records ALREADY. If YOU paid $6000 for another CAT scan, YOUR bad, NOT theirs. You could have had them pull the records. Trust me, I'm going through some rough stuff with my kidneys right now (left one's failing from blunt trauma/medicaion problmes), I know these things.

    Plus, if you were getting your cornhole checked out, where was the attending nurse? Docs cant give you THAT type of exam with no attending nurse, to make sure there's no er, how do I say it, "issues," with the exam!

    And why did you wait FOUR DAYS if you were THAT bad off? Sorry, rule is, if temp goes ABOVE 102, you go to the doctor. If you've not had any bowel movements for TWO days, you go to the doctor.

    Hell, they just told me at the ER if I dont PEE every DAY, I go to the doctor!

    Just sayin, it dont make any sense. I could be wrong, have been before, but really, it lacks logic.