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The House Judiciary Committee approved legislation on Thursday that would require Internet service providers (ISPs) to collect and retain records about Internet users' activity.

CNET reported the bill would require ISPs to retain customers' names, addresses, phone numbers, credit card numbers, bank account numbers, and temporarily-assigned IP addresses for 12 months.

The bill passed by a vote of 19 to 10, and is aimed at helping law enforcement track down pedophiles.

"The bill is mislabeled," Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), a senior member of the panel told CNET. "This is not protecting children from Internet pornography. It's creating a database for everybody in this country for a lot of other purposes."

The Protecting Children from Internet Pornographers Act of 2011 (H.R. 1981) was sponsored by House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith (R-TX) and Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL)

“When investigators develop leads that might result in saving a child or apprehending a pedophile, their efforts should not be frustrated because vital records were destroyed simply because there was no requirement to retain them," Smith said Thursday.

"This bill requires ISPs to retain subscriber records, similar to records retained by telephone companies, to aid law enforcement officials in their fight against child sexual exploitation."

The American Civil Liberties Union and 29 other organizations sent a letter (PDF) to Rep. Smith on July 27, claiming that "any data retention mandate is a direct assault on bedrock privacy principles."

"The data retention mandate in this bill would treat every Internet user like a criminal and threaten the online privacy and free speech rights of every American, as lawmakers on both sides of the aisle have recognized," Senior Staff Attorney Kevin Bankston of the Electronic Frontier Foundation said.

"Requiring Internet companies to redesign and reconfigure their systems to facilitate government surveillance of Americans' expressive activities is simply un-American. Such a scheme would be as objectionable to our Founders as the requiring of licenses for printing presses or the banning of anonymous pamphlets."

The bill is supported by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, the National Center for Victims of Crime, the National Sheriff’s Association, the Major County Sheriff’s Association, the International Union of Police Associations and the Fraternal Order of Police.
 

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"Requiring Internet companies to redesign and reconfigure their systems to facilitate government surveillance of Americans' expressive activities is simply un-American.
There is really nothing to redesign. The only thing they have to reconfigure is the box that says how long to wait before purging/overwriting the log file on whatever device they use. Unfortunately the infrastructure is already there and built in. If this passes it would involve literally a few minutes of time for some techs and maybe a couple more hard drives to store the larger/additional log files. Most (mid to large) companies already log, if not actively monitor, the network, internet and phone usage of their employees. ISPs are using the same equipment, just a more powerful version.
 

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Looks like the legislation is catching up to the practice. Without the legislative change many practices would be illegal. It is not likely however that anyone will be charged with a criminal activity when the activity has been changed to legal.

Interesting approach to hacking, make it required (a hidden tax).
 

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Nothing new,its just not hidden anymore.
Most conservatives are the watch list anyway. Especially christians clinging to their guns,returning vets and anyone who mentions the constitution or bill of rights. I've probably been on it for awhile now,and I'm not dangerous just using my free speech something they hate for us to do .Now everythings a hate crime 'except real genuine hate.
 

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This is no different than the telephone companies tracking who you have called. We're all used to that and pay it no mind. This will be a valuable law enforcement tool, and if you are doing nothing illegal, you have nothing to fear.

It's not as if it going to be actively and continually monitored; there is no way any government agency would devote personnel to something that mundane.
 

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This is no different than the telephone companies tracking who you have called. We're all used to that and pay it no mind. This will be a valuable law enforcement tool, and if you are doing nothing illegal, you have nothing to fear.

It's not as if it going to be actively and continually monitored; there is no way any government agency would devote personnel to something that mundane.
You talking about the same government that just took radical islam off the terror list and no longer calls teorroist terrorist but vets and gun clinging christians terrorist?
They have puters that have catch words,like constitution,bill of rights,2nd ammendment,gun and other words that zoom in on us.
Whos zooming who,the govs zooming you.:)
 

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and if you are doing nothing illegal, you have nothing to fear.
*************************

Turtle, no offense, but I'm disappointed and disgusted that you could believe and spout such a dangerous philosophy about government.

:soapboxrant:

If you want to ignore world history for the last, ohhhhhh, 5000 years, think: J. Edgar Hoover. He was the most powerful man in the world because he used (abused) his authority as FBI director for decades to get dirt on everyone. Every politician of any status feared that SOB. He literally told Presidents what to do!

Why the hell can't Americans learn from HISTORY!?

If the gubermint in power has access to a political opponent's medical records, emails, phone conversations and detailed travel/movement, at the very least, that opponent will be at a severe disadvantage. Most likely he will be ruined.

Can you say Watergate!

There are lots of other scenarios with private citizens that are just as ominous. The news has been replete with stories of gubermint "leaks" about individuals. Wanna talk about Richard Jewel!? The FBI ruined this guy and almost killed his elderly mom from the stress, when in fact, he was a hero. A little bit of info with a generous dollup of ********, and this innocent guy was crucified -- at the hands of the very government you want us all to trust!?:mad:

The saying says, "The pen is mightier than the sword." Well, information and the means to disseminate it is the granddaddy nuke of all power.

Frankly, turtle, it scares the hell out of me when I hear Americans spout that sort of shallow, "if you are doing nothing illegal, you have nothing to fear" garbage. The government is NOT our friend. It never has been. It is a necessary evil. One might compare government to a narcotic: It is useful in medicine if used very judiciously, deliberately and cautiously; but it is also very dangerous if not very tightly controlled.

Old dead white guys like, ohh, Franklin, Jefferson and Adam's greatest fear for the survival of the new nation they had just formed was not the Brits, Spanish, French or Indians -- it was THE GOVERNMENT.....:mad: Read your history. Well, guess what, Turtle. They were absolutely F*****G correct.

:rantoff:
 

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Now our own congress is calling fellow Americans "TERRORIST".

Just yesterday I read Rep.Mike Doyle called the tea party terrorist...."This small group of terrorist have made it impossible to spend any money".
Then Biden came on and agreed "negotiated with terrorist".

Phone number 412-390-1499.if you want to thank Dolyle for calling Americans terrorist.I called him.
 

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Because the study of history isn't valued. Americans don't learn history. :mad:
American learn history,its just not our history,the liberal unions teach how wonderful all culture is 'except American'.
They teach that the white man invented slavery,when in fact it was the arabs[same ones the blacks are running to join now]who first enslavedthe black man in Africa,then sold them to europe and America.Slavery is evil no matter who practices it,but it was'nt the black slave masters we bought from who abolished it,it was the white man.
Blacks had slaves even before the arabs came along as did most nations.In the New Testiment a Ethiopean was being carried by his slaves when he ask Peter or Paul ?, to baptize him.
You won't see or hear about any of this 'history' in any of Alex Haleys'Roots'movies.
Now the OutHouse celebrates Ramadon,yet no more xmas trees.Muslism swearing in on qurans and asking for sharia law.
Million Man March ,NOI,nothign but a gathering to condemn and insult Americans and the white man.
We all lose with this type of divisions and half truths being taught our kids in these indoctrination centers of DOE.

Wheres the athiest or ACLU when religious foot baths are put into our cities for muslims?
Wheres the history of our first fight with islam in Tripoli ? The reason our navy and marines were formed.
 

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Horseman09,

The flaw in your argument is that when you mention the "dirt" that Hoover had on various politicians, and things like Watergate....They were doing things that were illegal!

What I am saying is that if you keep your nose clean, follow the laws of the land, there will be no "dirt" to be dug up and used against you! I don't see why this is a difficult concept.

Look at the positives to a bill like this: the FBI tracks the purchases that terrorists make to acquire bomb-making materiels, this would allow them to use their ISP history as evidence to convict them. This means more successful convictions of bad people. Child pornographers, hackers, predatory investment schemes, date rapists, extortionists, kidnappers, drug runners... there is almost no end to the ways in which this will help provide law enforcement with evidence which will lead to convictions.

Please believe that I have studied A LOT of history. But also know that I am a federal law enforcement agent, and may have a slightly different perspective of this issue than some others. That doesn't mean that either of us is wrong; we simply see different uses for this piece of legislation.

Is there potential for this to be turned against the people? Perhaps. But I assure you that there are enough legal failsafes in place to prevent this from happening. Could the government some day be taken over and turned in to a socialist dictatorship? Maybe. If that happens, we will have much larger problems than a record of which websites you frequent. I don't believe that this government is perfect, but it is better than a lot of alternatives. It needs work, but fearing your government is the wrong attitude to have.
 

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Horseman09,

The flaw in your argument is that when you mention the "dirt" that Hoover had on various politicians, and things like Watergate....They were doing things that were illegal!

What I am saying is that if you keep your nose clean, follow the laws of the land, there will be no "dirt" to be dug up and used against you! I don't see why this is a difficult concept.

Look at the positives to a bill like this: the FBI tracks the purchases that terrorists make to acquire bomb-making materiels, this would allow them to use their ISP history as evidence to convict them. This means more successful convictions of bad people. Child pornographers, hackers, predatory investment schemes, date rapists, extortionists, kidnappers, drug runners... there is almost no end to the ways in which this will help provide law enforcement with evidence which will lead to convictions.

Please believe that I have studied A LOT of history. But also know that I am a federal law enforcement agent, and may have a slightly different perspective of this issue than some others. That doesn't mean that either of us is wrong; we simply see different uses for this piece of legislation.

Is there potential for this to be turned against the people? Perhaps. But I assure you that there are enough legal failsafes in place to prevent this from happening. Could the government some day be taken over and turned in to a socialist dictatorship? Maybe. If that happens, we will have much larger problems than a record of which websites you frequent. I don't believe that this government is perfect, but it is better than a lot of alternatives. It needs work, but fearing your government is the wrong attitude to have.
The laws have changed and have in many cases turned on the people they are suppose to protect.
What other vice president has called our citizens 'terrorist' like Biden did the other day by agreeing with Doyle who was the first to call tea party members terrorist? Add insult to injury,they nolonger calll rdicals terrorist that ,they have a nice new word for them.
So since your a member of the feds do you see anything wrong with your organization? Do you agree with the handling of Waco? Did those agents know there were women and children in that compound they were destroying to arrest some radical jerk who did'nt buy a tag?
 

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Horseman09,

The flaw in your argument is that when you mention the "dirt" that Hoover had on various politicians, and things like Watergate....They were doing things that were illegal!
***************

Absolutely not true. Is it illegal to be on prozac? Is it illegal for your wife to have been in a mental institution? Is it illegal to have had a girlfriend 20 years ago who got an abortion? Is it illegal to have had an affair? Is it illegal to own X number of guns? Any one of these could be used unfairly against a candidate by the incumbent who has the power of the fed at his disposal. Again, think J Edgar Hoover.

Or, is it an honest electoral race if the incumbent gets "inside" information on the campaign stategy of a tough opponent via your benevolent government? Does this subvert the democratic process? Uhh, yes it does. History.

Or, for example, GE, a hardcore, radically green, rabidly pro-ObaMao company gets inside trade information forwarded to it from your benevolent gubermint about a competitor, is this fair? Is this for the good of the industry? Is this what capitalism and fair trade and the American dream all about?
 

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[/B] ***************

Absolutely not true. Is it illegal to be on prozac? Is it illegal for your wife to have been in a mental institution? Is it illegal to have had a girlfriend 20 years ago who got an abortion? Is it illegal to have had an affair? Is it illegal to own X number of guns? Any one of these could be used unfairly against a candidate by the incumbent who has the power of the fed at his disposal. Again, think J Edgar Hoover.

Or, is it an honest electoral race if the incumbent gets "inside" information on the campaign stategy of a tough opponent via your benevolent government? Does this subvert the democratic process? Uhh, yes it does. History.

Or, for example, GE, a hardcore, radically green, rabidly pro-ObaMao company gets inside trade information forwarded to it from your benevolent gubermint about a competitor, is this fair? Is this for the good of the industry? Is this what capitalism and fair trade and the American dream all about?
Hey, I am not a big fan of modern politics. But that is far and away not the same thing as the federal government. Yeah, political B.S. is out of hand. I can't stand the Democrats, but the Republicans haven't impressed me much lately, either.

But to lump all modern politicians with the entire federal government as a whole is unfair. The federal government, as a group of employees, goes to work every day to help America.
 

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The laws have changed and have in many cases turned on the people they are suppose to protect.
What other vice president has called our citizens 'terrorist' like Biden did the other day by agreeing with Doyle who was the first to call tea party members terrorist? Add insult to injury,they nolonger calll rdicals terrorist that ,they have a nice new word for them.
So since your a member of the feds do you see anything wrong with your organization? Do you agree with the handling of Waco? Did those agents know there were women and children in that compound they were destroying to arrest some radical jerk who did'nt buy a tag?
Biden is a moron, as are most Democrats. they are slinging the term "terrorist" around to sensationalize their opponents, nothing more.

As for Waco, there may have been some opportunities for improvement there. I wasn't there, and I don't know all the details. It is unfortunate that innocents died, as one might assume the children to be.
 

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Hey, I am not a big fan of modern politics. But that is far and away not the same thing as the federal government. Yeah, political B.S. is out of hand. I can't stand the Democrats, but the Republicans haven't impressed me much lately, either.

But to lump all modern politicians with the entire federal government as a whole is unfair. The federal government, as a group of employees, goes to work every day to help America.
Well if the fed employees were smart they would investigate those they work for.Its not going to be pretty for them either WTSHTF,this nation is the last of the free world.No place to run or hide.Europe has already caved to the new world order.
We can't put Humpty Dumpty back together gain either.
 

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I love how we are all supposed to be on here, working toward one goal of preparedness, and yet we want to bring up b.s. like Waco, Watergate, hang evil signs on all people in government, and waste our precious time bantering over the little things that have come into existence, whether deliberately, or coincidentally, and are just distractions to the bigger picture of why we are supposed to be on this forum.

STOP BASHING BARACK OBAMA. He is one man. ONE MAN. He is the president. He PRESIDES over this government. He is not thee king, a king, none of that. The fact that we are SO quick to talk so much sh*t about ONE MAN simply empowers an ideal that there were expectations so much higher than what he is in office to perform to begin with, and that is nobody's fault, but our OWN if we are willing to believe that he shouldn't be president. So the man is a good speaker, and simply spoke his way into office just like every other president did? So the man may not be able to deal with all the issues, nor have a silver bullet to destroy all of our problems? All these problems were there before he got there, and they will be there when he leaves office; whether that be one year, or five years from now...it does NOT...MATTER.

I don't mean to be a prick, but y'all REALLY give the US Government WAYYYYYY too much credit. If the government couldn't stop itself from spending $14+ trillion more than what it had, do you HONESTLY think it can be responsible for all these evil deeds many of you seem to have a laundry list of in your back pocket? Those deeds were carried out by corrupt people...IN GOVERNMENT. Those FELLOW AMERICANS. I am in no way a fan of a government that is so big it can give everything, and take it all away in the blink of an eye, but I really think you give it too much credit by complaining about it. Just like when we use the word "jihad" to describe what Al Quaeda, AQIM, Al Shabbab, Taliban, Muqtada Al-Sadr, etc. are doing in their pursuits. We don't think it is "jihad" that they are doing, but we still pin that word on what they do. And guess what we have done? We've EMPOWERED THEM...even more than we thought we originally wouldn't...by simply USING a WORD...in the same token that we seemingly hate ONE MAN...and place ALL the blame on he and this little merry band of "cronies" he seems to have at his every beck and call.

You want to throw around HISTORY? How about when Lincoln said that if this country falls apart, it will be nobody's fault but the American people? I think y'all are wasting your time distracting yourself by complaining about b.s. that is not going to change until the next round of elections happens, or stronger civic action is taken daily happens. Rome didn't fall because of government: it fell because of corrupt PEOPLE in government. Learn the system, and learn the human terrain before you drop your hammer on the entire United States government.

Tweeting about it, FEAR MONGERING each other, whining and b*itching about it on the information superhighway, none of this...makes any difference. It simply raises blood pressure, and pisses off people like me, someone who in my own opinion about myself, seems to see the bigger picture: and that is "they" have "you" right where "they" wanted "you," sitting about, angry about things. They've won. You've lost...both sides of this petty ridiculousness are drinking from the same bowl of "Kool-Aid," so long as you and they sit in that field, and play that game.

So...bottom line: GET OVER IT. I didn't join this f*cking forum to watch this petty a$$ fear mongering. Start doing a little credibility searching for these "sources" too...my job specifically deals with talking to people, and having credibility, and some of the things you people say on here makes me want to laugh right in your face if you were standing in front of me...sad part is you are probably a whole hell of a lot older than me too.

Do what YOU can do to keep control over what you can, what affects you. If someone starts abusing this new bill, guess what will happen? The American people will find out about it just like we found out about "WATERGATE," "WACO," "Wiki Leaks," "Enron," so forth and so on, and something will be done of the abuse...and if it doesn't, organizations that have been put into motion will step in like they ALWAYS have whether one side liked it or not.

P.S. "NEWS FLASH:" Yeah, there are plenty of red blooded Americans that are terrorists, or aspiring to become terrorists. "Google" Al Shabbab American terrorist attacks.
 
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