French Parliament approves burqa ban

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Bua nó Bás, Jul 13, 2010.

  1. Bua nó Bás

    Bua nó Bás Member

    19
    0
    Just thought I might shoot this up here on what's a been a fairly controversial issue on this side of the pond, and I'd say its going to be hotter when the bureaucrats in the EU decide that these laws breach human rights and overrule the national parliaments.

    There is already local bye-laws which prohibit young people from wearing hooded sweatshirts in certain areas high crime areas due to their usage to conceal one's identity in person and on CCTV cameras during crimes. So I think this is a for once a positive step by the politically correct elite.

    This is a big step, hopefully it will get through the next two stages.

     
  2. UncleJoe

    UncleJoe Well-Known Member

    6,764
    108
    I think this would start quite a firestorm on this side of the pond. Heck, we can't even check ID to found out if you're in this country (US) legally. :confused:
     

  3. Bua nó Bás

    Bua nó Bás Member

    19
    0
    That's ridiculous but it was the same here for the last few years. We've got high numbers of Eastern European immigrants from former Soviet territories, with no respect for the laws, especially when it came to drunk driving, motor tax and insurance, so they're driving ancient cars drunk and causing accidents, only recently has a clampdown taken place with the seizure of their vehicles and prosecution when stopped and found to be in violation.

    They've took most of the minimum wage jobs as well, because they're willing to work for less and often illegally, but a weeks wage here is the same as a months wage over there. Minimum wage here is €€8.65 ($10.98) per hour which is the least any worker can be legally paid but it's likely to be cut in the coming years as it's second highest in the EU.

    As regards Muslims, there's a grow population here with a number of mosques springing up in recent years. The old image of Ireland being green and quaint has long since changed due to globalisation, in the next 10 years it's not going to be a pleasant place to live.
     
  4. kogneto

    kogneto The Skeptic

    280
    0
    just wait till they come for your religion
     
  5. gypsysue

    gypsysue The wanderer

    4,350
    22
    Yeah, well, minimum wage here is $7.25/hour. Try and live on that and keep your bills paid!
     
  6. Bua nó Bás

    Bua nó Bás Member

    19
    0
    I don't have any particular religion, partly due to the domination of Catholicism which created a virtual theocracy for many centuries, up until the early '90s.


    Our cost of living is incredibly higher than over there, which is the main reason for the high wage. When I was in the States, visiting my brother who lived and worked legally over there for a few years on a similar low wage, I couldn't believe how cheap things were in comparison.

    So in reality, while European wages may sound high, we're still getting ****ed by the cost of living. The only major advantages are reasonably free healthcare (if on a low wage) and social welfare benefits
     
  7. kogneto

    kogneto The Skeptic

    280
    0
    I guess my comment was more indirect, than specifically targeting you bua

    governments deciding how religious expression is carried out scares me though
     
  8. mosquitomountainman

    mosquitomountainman I invented the internet. :rofl:

    3,698
    70
    The government's been doing it here for years.
     
  9. kogneto

    kogneto The Skeptic

    280
    0
    how so? I still see Westboro Baptist nuts supporting the oil spill/9-11/death of american soldiers, and every other despicable twist of the bible

    I also see burqa clad women, menonite farms, and scientology churches getting tax breaks
     
  10. gypsysue

    gypsysue The wanderer

    4,350
    22
    My guess is public prayer and prayer in schools being forbidden.

    For myself, I find it interesting that some religions are scorned or opressed and others are protected or encouraged. Doesn't seem to matter if they're fringe or mainstream.

    Our right to curse someone in public is more protected than our right to pray for someone in public. Hmmm.

    It will be interesting to see how this burqa ban unfolds in Europe.
     
  11. kogneto

    kogneto The Skeptic

    280
    0
    i know of 0 laws, citations, or bills saying you can't pray in public

    as for prayer in schools, you are perfectly able to bring your favorite bible and pray anywhere you like (so long as you aren't praying outloud to interrupt class, or praying in an area where children aren't allowed i.e. kitchens, maintenance rooms, etc)

    it's not that they ban or hate prayer, it's that they realize not everyone prays or prays to the same god, so mandatory prayer at the start of class could not constitutionally be enforced
     
  12. horseman09

    horseman09 Well-Known Member

    1,240
    4
    Good point. I don't ever recall the courts referring to the second part of the 1st Amendment, that the government can't prohibit the free excercise thereof.

    But I have to agree with Kogneto also, in that it's none of the government's business what I wear. If they have the power to tell women they can't wear burkas in public, could they tell nuns they can't wear habits? Slippery slope?

    I am no fan of Islam, but I am more afraid of my government than I am of Islam. Remember the common saying re: the Viet Nam war? The people of South Viet Nam didn't care who was killing them: the Commies or the corrupt regime in Saigon -- dead was still dead.

    Well........today, Americans are increasingly facing a modernized Orwell's 1984in the form of our federal govenment, and the prospect of a midevil nightmare in the form of Sharia law at the hands of Islam.
     
  13. horseman09

    horseman09 Well-Known Member

    1,240
    4
    Kogneto, you beat me to the "submit" button. :) I'd have to disagree with you on prayer. How many times have we read that some kid at graduation was prohibited to end his commencement speach with "God Bless"? I'd have to do some digging (don't have time for that today) but the news is replete with examples like that.
     
  14. kogneto

    kogneto The Skeptic

    280
    0
    I found one example of it, but it wasn't that the student was banned from saying "god bless" it was that they wanted to lead graduation ceremony of the Washington Community High School in Peoria Illinois back in May of 2001, with a student led prayer. Since it is a public school, that receives federal dollars, they are still held to the same standards as other government bodies, in that they cannot endorse or impose one specific religion.

    you don't have to send your kids to public school is the message here. I personally attended a private christian school and we had prayer every morning, we pledged allegiance to the american and christian flags, we even sang "onward christian soldiers", and Bible class was not only mandatory it was homeroom. I now attend a public university, and I would not expect them to lead any class with prayer, but had I attended bob jones or pensacola that would be a different story.

    there are countless avenues for expressing your religious freedoms, and millions of churches to attend. Christianity is in no way waning, and yet the squeakiest wheels are the largest organizations fighting the pettiest battles.
     
  15. mosquitomountainman

    mosquitomountainman I invented the internet. :rofl:

    3,698
    70
    I don't have time to do a lot of research on the subject either but the issue goes far beyond prayer in school. The Gideons aren't allowed to give Bibles away on school property. (Although they'd be welcomed on school property if they were giving away condums.) Children have been sent home for "religious" displays such as shirts and jewelry. Adults have not been able to legally pray for children or at school ceremonies. When hiring for positions, church sponsered institutions are sometimes banned from denying positions to those who do not accepts the institution's beliefs. Catholic Charities (I believe that's the name) who placed children for adoption were forced to close because they refused to place children in homosexual headed households. If the militay's Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy is repealed and homosexuality is embraced as a legitimate "lifestyle choice" then military chaplains who speak out against homosexuality on reliegious grounds or even host marriage enrichment classes will face corrective action for exercising their faith.

    There are other examples I could bring up but I just don't have the time to mess with it today. If it's to be pursued farther I'd recommend starting a thread on the religious section.
     
  16. kogneto

    kogneto The Skeptic

    280
    0
    you still find gideons in hotels across the country, and they recognize kids will be dumb about unprotected sex so they give out condoms to prevent 16 year old moms, or 16 year olds with syphilis


    I did a google search for "children sent home for religious expression" and this is all I found

    you can pray in your head, if you think prayer requires physical touch then that's weird, and again public school ceremonies are bound by the same governmental separation as any other body that receives federal funding (but aside from that, if you think everyone worships one god or any gods then you are misguided)

    actually this was a big deal up here, they were trying to add "sexual preference" to the "cannot discriminate against" for hiring, housing, etc. and the church I went to picketed the municipality's open forum claiming they would be forced to hire pedophiles to teach sunday school, but of course it is still legal for churches and organizations to fire based on whether or not you believe in God.

    I remember my third grade teacher was fired because they found out she stopped going to church at our church (church and school were same building) and was instead practicing at home

    yeah, that actually makes sense, homosexuals can be perfectly fine parents, they aren't pedophiles deviants or perverts, they're your neighbors and friends, they can show love and support to children just as well as any other person

    I'd like to remind you that religion is a lifestyle choice

    they don't like me there, but I understand this is becoming more religious themed than "current news"...it's too bad we don't just have a "general" section where anything and everything can be discussed
     
  17. NaeKid

    NaeKid YourAdministrator, eh?

    8,000
    10
    I was hoping that this wouldn't happen, but, it has.

    Moved thread out of current-events/news to Religion. :cry:
     
  18. mosquitomountainman

    mosquitomountainman I invented the internet. :rofl:

    3,698
    70
    "governments deciding how religious expression is carried out scares me though"

    Compare your quote (above) from a previous post on this thread with what you wrote in your last post.

    Gideons have been banned from handing out Bibles on school property. Even though no one is being forced to accept one nor is it done at public expense.

    Yes, you can pray "in your head" but you can't legally do it out loud as per government restrictions. I have no idea where you get the physical/touch stuff. And prayer may be offerred in college ceremonies but not in high school ceremonies. Both receive federal funding. Not even students are allowed to pray publicly at HS functions which is a direct violation of their civil rights under the first amendment. The issue isn't whether everyone worships one God. The issue is that those who do are not allowed to express that in public school ceremonies. Those who scream loudest for tolerance are the most intolerant of all.

    When it comes to hiring/firing why should a privately funded church or parachurch ministry be forced by the government to hire people who do not uphold the values of that institution?

    For these church organizations to exist and continue their ministry the government required that they deny basic tenants of their faith. There are other avenues for homosexuals to adopt children. I'd like to remind you that pursuing a homosexual lifestyle is a choice.

    And, yes, homosexuality is a sexual perversion and is deviant sexual behavior. You don't need a Bible to see that truth.

    "I'd like to remind you that religion is a lifestyle choice..."

    A choice that should be protected from government interference as long as it's practice does not harm others.
     
  19. gypsysue

    gypsysue The wanderer

    4,350
    22
    IMO people probably got tired of the judgemental attitude of a lot of Christians, and having it shoved at them all the time. It isn't only the Christians that tend to do that, it's a lot of the special interest groups and lifestyle-choice people.

    Tolerance? What a joke. The people screaming "tolerance" the loudest seem to be least willing to exemplify it.

    I do like MMM's statement about "choice" being protected from government interference as long as it's practice does not harm others." Too bad homosexuality couldn't have just been integrated into society in a calm way instead of the circus it's become, causing them to frantically feel the need to shove it in our faces.

    Acceptance doesn't mean approval, but we should be able to live with it.

    We've sure become a society of perceived victimhood.
     
  20. OldFashionedMama

    OldFashionedMama Partyin' like it's 1699

    216
    0
    We have a large and growing Muslim community where I live. I see them at the park, the grocery store, everywhere. They almost always go together as a family, and from what I'm seeing are fairly well to do and live in the more affluent neighborhoods. One family was checking out at a hair salon, and an older woman-perhaps the grandmother of the family-was in traditional dress, not the full burqa but the hijab and a floor-length, long-sleeved gown made of black taffeta and elaborate embroidery and what looked like sewed-on pearls. NOT your average everyday garment!

    One day at Wal Mart, for the first time in my life, I saw a woman wearing the burqa. I still feel shameful for staring at her, for feeling fear that was totally not justified. There's lots of Mennonites here too, and they dress traditionally and the women wear bonnets. How come I don't bat an eye at them? I refuse to believe that all Muslims are hiding bombs under their clothes and hate America. I have no right to judge them-hell I don't think I've ever spoken to a Muslim! Our media has done a fine job of scaring the public and turning every innocent Muslim into a terrorist.

    As someone who has, from time to time, found it spiritually comforting to dress modestly and in accordance with my own beliefs, these bans make my heart ache for these women. Just my opinion, YRMV.