Fight or Run?

Discussion in 'General Preparedness Discussion' started by FreeNihilist, Jan 28, 2011.

  1. FreeNihilist

    FreeNihilist Well-Known Member

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    Whenever I get into a discussion about WTSHTF or TEOTWAWKI even among prepared individuals, it seems many have a notion that defending their property and confronting all life and possible opposition violently is the best answer.

    In other words, everyone has the idea that they are going to be able to remain in plain sight and just out power everyone and everything that approaches using modern firearms with a very limited supply of ammunition.

    I find this to be incredibly stupid. I on the other hand find it far more intelligent to use a hidden bunker and remain out of sight as much as humanly possible and to only risk confrontation when necessary and to focus mostly on defensive tactics with offensive tactics being a last resort. I always get called a coward for this one.

    Would you A) Fight and remain in sight mostly living in your house as if nothing has changed or B) Use a hidden and well reinforced bunker or room and prepare to hunker down until things blow over a bit and then only risk being seen as necessary?
     
  2. gypsysue

    gypsysue The wanderer

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    Glad you feel comfortable expressing your opinion. Guess you won't mind if I say I heartily disagree! I think most of us are making the best plans we can based on our own situations and knowledge. I'd hate to spend a few months or years in my bunker just to avoid confrontations.

    Please make sure you watch your language. Words like "stupid" aren't very welcome on this forum. Be respectful of others and of others' plans and opionions, and we'll do so for you.
     

  3. mosquitomountainman

    mosquitomountainman I invented the internet. :rofl:

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    Look, the jury is still out regarding your intelligence. After you've been here awhile maybe people will believe that you are ... or maybe they'll be convinced you're not. But one thing is for sure. When you start telling other people they or thier plans are "incredibly stupid" and equate yourself as "far more intelligent" your time on this forum is going to get limited real quick. We've had a several of you "super intelligent" types lately and they've all been sent packing.

    So ... if you plan on sticking around show a little common sense and good manners and quit believing your own hype. If you are that intelligent people will see it for themselves. If you aren't? No one will ever be able to convince you otherwise will they? Take a good look at the last quote this post? Are you a good investment?
     
  4. FreeNihilist

    FreeNihilist Well-Known Member

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    My intention isnt to offend anyone. I am merely expressing my feelings and opinions on the subject in an honest manner. My intention is to simply get a feel for what others feel on this subject or if I am alone in my convictions. Im not intending to say people are stupid but rather that I find certain ideas stupid as does everyone in the world. We all have our opinions. I didnt intend to show any disrespect at all.
     
  5. mosquitomountainman

    mosquitomountainman I invented the internet. :rofl:

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    Depends on the situation.
     
  6. FreeNihilist

    FreeNihilist Well-Known Member

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    It honestly doesnt matter what people think as far as my intelligence goes. Some people think I am brilliant, others crazy and others think Im quite the idiot. But that is their construct and opinion and opinions dont make facts or reality.

    I do not feel nor did I intend to lack any manners. I apologize if my post was taken as rude or disrespectful. I was merely explaining my opinion and asking others opinions, nothing more.

    I did not equate myself as being intelligent nor suggest it. I simply personally find the IDEA of a defensive posture more intelligent in my experience. Others may find their experiences differ. We all have ideas and we all find some ideas stupid or unintelligent.

    I think you misunderstood most of my post as I am not saying I am intelligent in any manner as that is purely a relative term in all regards. Rather I was saying I find certain ideas to be smart in my book and others to be not so smart in my book.

    My goal wasnt to do anything than to try to compare plans and share ideas. I bear no hostility nor superiority to anyone here. I apologize if my post was misunderstood or ruffled any feathers. I come in peace.
     
  7. Tirediron

    Tirediron RockyMountainCanadian

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    I think that being as invisible as possible is a good plan,but I will defend what is mine to the best of my ability. when the rule of law breaks down it becomes the rule of the jungle and if somebody wants to play in my tree , things might get rough.
    I really don't see "the golden hoards" as being a problem in my part of the world most will stay in their own comfort Zone as long as they can (I hope)

    Thank you for explaining your position in your last post, as the previous members said we have had a few less than pleasant encounters lately, this is a friendly helpful forum, hope you enjoy your time here
     
  8. JayJay

    JayJay Well-Known Member

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    What is suggested here isn't practical.

    I don't have two houses miles apart.

    There are only 10 houses on this street; I know not the neighbors' names so let's call them residents.

    They probably know I only go out when the weather is above 40 degrees and not raining....now, if for some reason, they don''t see my husband and me for a few weeks, and there has been a major disruption of food supply, wouldn't they come visiting without an invitation??

    So, we plan on letting all 'residents' know we are armed and guarding our home kinda 'up close and personal'.
     
  9. FirstActionSelfDefense

    FirstActionSelfDefense Always Learning

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    I agree. You do what needs to be done to survive, and protect yourself and your loved ones. Fight if you really have too. If not, then I feel the 'run and hide' method is the way to go.

    I wouldnt worry about people calling me a coward in this respect. Material possessions can be regained, life can not.

    Of course i say this but I was in the Army for some years and although now out and not required to serve, if Australia was being invaded, Id definately fight for countries freedom.

    So Im a hypocryt... eh
     
  10. FreeNihilist

    FreeNihilist Well-Known Member

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    It's not practical for everyone I suppose to be able to hide fully as not everyone has a way of constructing a bunker I suppose or sealing off a secured area but there are people Ive talked with, who intend to set up no defense and just intend to shoot anything that crosses their yard/property relying on purely offensive tactics. The issue with this becomes, that no one can see everything, others will be armed at some point, and people have to sleep and looting will occur in the night.

    In my experiences, people will almost always choose the easiest targets, with the exception being that they will choose harder ones if they know there is a better payoff. Generally speaking of course. I feel it is important to at least attempt to barricade, seal or otherwise put up defenses to at least try to dissuade people from choosing your own house to ransack. If one in four people in america have guns that means at first one in four people will be armed until they run out of ammo.

    And yes as soon as TSHTF people will be knocking on your door to ask for various things they dont have. People would be soliciting door to door among those they know to try and fill the gaps in their lack of preparedness. So youre right in that you couldnt just hide in the house.

    There isnt always a lot of options but if you cant form a reliable group effort then barricades, deterrences or some other similar devices to set up a defense according to your abilities to do so would be the next best thing.

    And of course no defense devices are perfect but the more you make people work for something, the less they'll attempt to get it.
     
  11. FreeNihilist

    FreeNihilist Well-Known Member

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    Precisely. I'm not worried per se about people calling me a coward but I find it obnoxious when people seem to think they can take on the US Army or play Rambo and take down large groups single handed and then call me a coward for not blindly charging guns blazing. Frighteningly enough, there is a fair number of individuals I've talked to who have this sort of idea firmly planted.

    I come from the perspective that, you're always going to be overpowered sooner or later and that it only takes one mistake to lose your life. So I feel that avoiding as many confrontations as possible will undoubtedly increase your survival chances WTSHTF. Of course half the people who want to go guns blazing are local militia members or people of a similar ideology.
     
  12. HozayBuck

    HozayBuck Well-Known Member

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    Well I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that your just trying to fit in and learn and i hope maybe teach some too...

    Speaking for me.. I have no intention of living in a hole in the ground.. I will be out working , growing, planting, doing what it takes to live.. to assume that my doing so makes me a target will get you undone.. I ain't lived this long on the dark side because I'm stupid.. I may not be watching but i assure you somebody will be... and yes i think I have the abilities to defend my homestead... I may lose but it will be very costly for whomever and in the end they will get nothing because there will be nothing to get..

    Never assume... remember?.. because you don't believe in anything don't mean there isn't something out there that believes you would make a nice snack ...

    Now if you know how to build a great underground bunker and hide it and survive...tell us!! we are all ...ears ( ? ) well we are willing to learn.. but speak in words we simple folk can understand..
     
  13. Dixie

    Dixie Well-Known Member

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    FreeNihilist;
    Now how bright would that be for me to answer?
     
  14. FreeNihilist

    FreeNihilist Well-Known Member

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    I meant everyone Ive personally spoken to IRL. I apologize for the lack of clarity.
     
  15. gypsysue

    gypsysue The wanderer

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    To some people, the whole idea of the SHTF is so overwhelming and scary, they don't want to think about it. Their form of denial probably also includes a false belief that things could never get "that bad" and they don't need to get out of sight.
     
  16. FirstActionSelfDefense

    FirstActionSelfDefense Always Learning

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    I think if you were planning to fight back, a local militia would be the way to go. If you are in a well organised group your chances would definitely increase, I mean, isn't that how independence day was born? (please excuse that my american history is not great, and feel free to correct me).
     
  17. BillM

    BillM BillM

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    If it ever gets where we have mobs, roaming the streets, and armed bands looking for food. It will place even those who have prepared to feed them selves in a precarious position.

    My thinking is this. Unless you can go into some kind of totally secrete underground bunker and remain there until the mob is out of gas , ammo and energy, ( about a month), it would be unwise to attempt the bunker thing.

    This is why I say this. My Dad was a Combat Engineer during WWII. During the battle of the bulge, his squad of 15 men , kept 250 German troops captive in their own bunker. They had food, water, ammo and an nonpenetratable concrete bunker with walls five feet thick.

    The same bunker meant to protect them, became a trap when they could no longer control the entire area surrounding them.

    After ten days, twenty men assaulted the bunker and once they had the area outside the bunker secured, the Germans had to surrender.

    I would scatter some furniture and electronic equipment along with some garbage and trash in the yard around the house.

    I would make some signs that say,

    "CAUTION INFECTIOUS AID PATIENT"
    "BLOOD BORN PATHOGEN PROTECTION REQUIRED"

    I would place some bloody gauze dressings in a Red " infectious waste" bag on the porch and let the flies swarm them.

    The idea is to make the place look like it has already been looted !
    Make it look real dangerous to even be around!

    It will be easer to scare them off than to fight them off!

    I can fight a mob, but to make that my plan puts me and my family in a position where some body gets killed or wounded.

    Remember in this kind of situation, there is no hospital to go to .

    The mobs and gangs will not last very long and eventually the population will thin out.

    Once this happens, you will be dealing with an occasional looter passer by.

    This kind of disaster will thin out the population considerably

    I was about 14 during the Cuban missile crises.

    My dad took me to a meeting at the National Guard Armory.

    They showed a film about a nuclear attack , how to build an under ground fallout shelter, how to stock it, and what you would have to do to defend it.

    On the way home I asked Dad if we were going to build one and he said , "I don't think we will".

    Why not , I asked, and he told me that he would have to shoot our neighbors to keep them out if there was a nuculer strike.

    He asked me which neighbors I would shoot first, and started naming them?

    I told him I didn't want to shoot any of our neighbors, they were our friends.

    He told me that he had seen people in that kind of situation during the war and never wanted to see it again.

    I asked him , Dad how would we survive he told me something I never forgot.

    He said if we were attacked it may not be as bad as they said it would be, but if it was, there are
    some things, that just are not worth surviving !

    My dad was right and very wise !
     
  18. kyfarmer

    kyfarmer Well-Known Member

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    Anyone that want's to make a go of it after the crap slap's the blade's will have to be ready to employ a host of defense and offense. Hide, ambush and defend up front there will not be just one thang that will fit all area's of this mess ta come. Living and working on the place will be a must as most others already know. If the community can keep it's cool later on and help each other, i think that would be the best for every one, if possible. Going it alone will be a tough row ta hoe. Work with what ya have and adapt to survive. :D
     
  19. vn6869

    vn6869 Afraid, very afraid

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    FreeNihilist,
    I have to say your choice of avatar and signature line pretty well give a picture of your thinking JMHO.

    You started a good thread, one that has been hashed and rehashed on this and other forums. But not sure of your real intentions.

    I agree with FirstActionSelfDefense anyone, in ANY situation whether it be SHTF, a car accident, or whatever, will do whatever they think they need to for survival. Again, JMHO.
     
  20. NaeKid

    NaeKid YourAdministrator, eh?

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    To get this thread back onto topic before I have to toss it into LTS ....

    There are many levels of TEOTWAWKI as shown in different movies (ya, ya, Hollywood, but, stay with me here) from seeing something like WaterBorne (pathogens introduced to water-supply for localized terror) to 28-days-later (experiment on monkeys gone wrong creating zombie-like creatures) to all-out TEOTWAWKI as shown in "The Road", "Day after tomorrow" and "2012".

    In the case of WaterBorne's premise, flight is better than fight to get away from the troubles. In that case, simply packing up the truck-n-trailer and heading away from ocean towards a fresh water-source (cold-spring) would be the safest way to survive, keeping in contact with the outside world via radio-communications.

    In the case of 28-days-later, having a defendable bunker is the best choice and having huge stores of food available inside the bunker so that you do not need to go outside would be the preferred method of survival. Gardens, goats, pigs, horses will not help you during this time and may infact bring death upon you.

    In the case of Day-after-tomorrow - you are screwed no matter what you plan. There is no place that you can go that is better, there are no gardens that you can grow for food and there is no need for guns for protection from two-legged predators - they would all be frozen in place unless they are prepared for arctic-exploration.




    As situations change, sometimes being mobile is the right choice, sometimes staying put is the right choice and .... believe it or not, sometimes there isn't a right choice and you will have to either live or die by that choice. There isn't an easy answer to your question because life isn't easy.

    Life isn't a movie with happy endings, life just has an ending. How we get there is our choice.