Discussion in 'General Preparedness Discussion' started by Turtle, Jul 4, 2011.

  1. Turtle

    Turtle Well-Known Member

    Let me preface this by saying that I do not intend to offend anyone.

    In reading through some of the threads on here (and elsewhere on the internet), I am struck by the blatant lack of familiarity with basic grammar and spelling. This caused me to wonder: Should things "go south" on a large scale, how prepared is everyone to maintain some level of education for their families/groups?

    Think of the fall of Rome and all of the learning that was lost. Are we prepared to be thrust into an intellectual Dark Ages again? Just some food for thought; perhaps add a few of Plato's and Shakespeare's works to your libraries.
  2. Frugal_Farmers

    Frugal_Farmers Good ole country folk

    When TSHTF, I'll take the wisdom of the uneducated hillbillies around me any day of the week over someone with a formal education.

    I have learned all kinds of things from these folks.

    I guess it boils down to where you place formal education on the survival scale.

    It's kind of funny because I used to think these folks were just dumb a$$ hillbillies, but now I have the wisdom to know, they have first hand experiences that could never be taught in higher education learning environments.

  3. power

    power ExCommunicated

    A high priced degree and correct spelling will be down on the bottom of the list when people are trying to keep from starving to death.
    I am with FF on this. Would much rather have a poor uneducated farmer with me if SHTF than someone with several degrees from major colleges.
  4. tsrwivey

    tsrwivey Supporting Member

    It would be fine by me if we did lose all those grammar rules! :D I am formally educated, it doesn't make me smarter than anyone else it just allows me to do my job legally. My hubby is way smarter than me with no post high school schooling & in a SHTF situation I would much rather have to get by with the information in his head than what's in mine in most instances.

    I have homeschooled K-12, one graduated & the other is a junior. I'm a bookaholic, mainly nonfiction & classics. I sure wouldn't want to homeschool K-12 with only the materials I have, but I could make do.
  5. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

    Can you say the same for the next generation & the next & the next tho? I think that's more what the OP is asking as opposed to a "who's smarter?" or a "vs" scenario.

    Civilization didn't disappear overnight, it gradually degenerated, and in many instances had a lot of intentional help in the process (ie book burning, raiding, redacting/censoring)
  6. stayingthegame

    stayingthegame Well-Known Member

    there is a difference between book smarts and common sense. we will need both when the shtf comes. common sense will solve everyday problems, but book learning will be needed to reset and rebuild our world. I agree that the hilbillys and country folks ways will be the best for us in the immediate future, next will come math and science, reading and writing. somewhere, there after will come Plato and his friends.
  7. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

    as a "hillbilly" I'd like to say "gawrsall-fishstix, sum uv us hav sum buk-larnin' " :rolleyes: :eek: :D

    P.S. have fun trying to survive at even the 'frontiersman' level without some STEM (Science Technology Engineering Math) skills... if you think there's anything 'simple' about a 'simple blacksmith' or 'basic carpentry'... :dunno:

    Val Kilmer in Mission to Mars
  8. Frugal_Farmers

    Frugal_Farmers Good ole country folk

    Hey, Hey, Hey--who are you calling a poor, uneducated farmer?:D:D:D
  9. Frugal_Farmers

    Frugal_Farmers Good ole country folk

    OK, so let me revert back to the OP.

    In considering life post-SHTF, I would have to say that teaching my children and grandchildren basic life skills is still more important than any higher education degree. Take the european model, trade schools exist because not everyone will go to University. We still need "the butcher, the baker, and the candlestick maker".

    When your septic sytem backs up and you need someone to take care of it. That uneducated "turd sucker" becomes the most important person in your life.

    I have literally been around the world and been to plenty of 3rd world countries. Perhaps those places that had the greatest impact on me were those people who living the good life void of all those material possesions that enslave people to careers they hate.

    Ask yourself what our higher education sytems are teaching our youth today. Medical schools are owned by big drug companies, business schools are teaching "maximizing profits" and we have created a society where greed wins out over taking care of your customers.

    I would say that community homeschooling would be the way to go post-SHTF.
  10. Jason

    Jason I am a little teapot

    Without learning history we are doomed to repeat it-to make the same dumb mistakes generation after generation. We need a written record of our accomplishments and failures, even afther TSHTF. We'll need math to figure out how far uphill a given ram pump can make the water go. We're not going to blindly blunder through trial and error-ashuman beings we are the most intelligent beings in the known universe and as such we are born to explore, and to record those explorations.

    I don't care about a formal education per se (and I do hold a bachelor's degree) in its own right after SHTF. What I do care about is that people remain willing to learn and that accepted spelling and math are taught. Does everyone need to excel at everything? No, of course not. I can spell well but I'm awful at math without a calculator. That gets back to us being basically pack animals who do better as a well rounded group than as individuals.

    By teaching (and learning) how to spell, write, and solve math and science problems we will be able to climb back out of the 1800's if a solar flare/pandemic/whatever puts us there.

    I don't look down on people wo can't spell well or have whatever weakness...lord knows I have plenty of weaknesses myself. But you're damn straight I'll do my best to make sure my boy has book smarts if he has no other way to get it. Rather than dividing between "dumb farmers" and "lawyer types" I think basic education is crucial to us all as a species and a society, and I really think that basic education will prevail after SHTF.
  11. OldCootHillbilly

    OldCootHillbilly Reverend Coot

    Some a the most book smart folk I know ain't got the sense ta pound sand in a rat hole.

    Good common sense an knolwedge of things bein lost cause it ain't put inta a book are far more valuable. Walk inta the campin sectiona a walmart with a flint an steel an have one a them folk start a fire. Most ain't never seen one er if they have been on the boob tube, let alone be able ta use it. They won't know nothin much bout raisin food be it vegitables er meat, that comes outa the grocery section on tather side.

    Lost a early knowledge bein lost do ta "modernization" an that be education what we may never get back. Yup, books got a place, lots ta be learned from em, but put that learnin ta use with experience an ya got it. A hillbilly, er a farmer use more mental thinkin in a day then lots a them scientific types an in a way what benefits a great many folk.

    So, cause I write an talk funny, am I uneducated? Naw, I actually got two degree's, yeah they've helped over the years, but I prefer ta stay true ta my roots an practice the old ways. Been a rite many times that old information saved the day. Much a that information ain't real tecnical but is more valuable in my opinion. I teach anyone what wan't ta learn cause much a it be a dissappearin art.

    In a total breakdown such as a pandemic similar ta the show after armageddon, a computer programmer ain't gonna be a much use ifin he er she don't have some other skill set. The world relies far to much on technology taday an the time may come when it becomes useless. Books er better cause they don't take batteries but need ta be the right books fer the job.

    Ok, I'm done cause this gettin to long winded! Education will always have a place, right next ta knowledge an experience.
  12. Quills

    Quills Well-Known Member

    Reading skills and effective comprehension are imperative to learning things if you do not have someone to show you. Communication skills can save your life.

    I, too, am dismayed at the general lack of communication skills, reading, writing and comprehension, of today's youth. Apparently, it's more important that they reach adulthood with their ego intact than able to understand a list of simple directions.

    I have a degree, and I agree that it is simply a legality, I have learned most of my skills by DOING the work with people who have more experience than I, but there are parts of my job I simply could not do if I did not understand the basics of grammar, spelling, and effective communication and comprehension.

    My DH has three degrees, all in the sciences. Who is smarter? Well, the jury is still out, but I tend to have much more common sense and problem solving abilities, and he has more pure, instinctive knowledge -- neither of those were attained through our degrees, but that "formal" education sure taught us how to utilize and apply our intelligence.

    A good education doesn't teach you THINGS, it teaches you how to THINK. Because of this, we pulled our kids from public school early on, because they were simply being taught what would be on the government-mandated tests, and not how to utilize knowledge or how to gain new knowledge. We have educated them classically, and taught them along the guidelines of the trivium of learning which will allow them to continue to learn for the rest of their lives.

    Education is not something that stops with the high school diploma, or the degree -- it is something that those things are supposed to give you the skills to pursue for the rest of your life. Unfortunately, government involvement and standardized testing, which send the message that the scores, not the learning, are what is important, rule the day. Remove that, and we'll get back to what education is all about: broadening our horizons, opening up our world view, and attaining the skills that allow us to continue to learn for the rest of our lives.
  13. power

    power ExCommunicated

    Sorry, didn't mean any disrespect. I was talking about poor uneducated farmers, not someone as skilled with words as you.

    We are now discussing two separate things. The first thing was when everything went south, SHTF. Then we will need people with more hands on experience and common sense.

    The second thing we are now discussing is the need for an education if S don't HTF. Education is a great thing. Helps in just about all steps in life.
    I have two degrees and two trade school degrees. Never been without a job. They sure have helped me out all through my life. Made it possible to retire early.

    We need both types. Can't make it very well if we have to choose one over the other. Each has their place.
  14. Quills

    Quills Well-Known Member

    Doesn't it make sense though, that we would need people who know how to learn? Learning is a skill in and of itself. Unfortunately, it's a skill that many no longer have access to, because they've been told that it doesn't matter if they spell "differently" than others, or don't use proper grammar and punctuation... proper grammar and punctuation can change the meaning of a sentence completely. If you can't decode the meaning, you can't learn what the sentence is trying to communicate.

    Logic, pragmatic thinking skills, problem-solving, and rhetoric all used to be taught. Where are these in our education system now? Now we have "whole word" reading rather than phonics and learning vocabulary roots. We have "estimation" rather than learning the multiplication tables. We have made things like history and civics courses take a back seat to basketball and football programs, and we don't teach our children anything that is "hard" because the failure rate brings down the "percentages". We've told kids that it's okay to fail, and it's resulted in a populace which is too uneducated to support itself.

    Perhaps if education requirements were a little more straightforward -- children MUST know how to read, write, do arithmetic, and can comprehend basic ideas from the written word in order to graduate high school, we'd have a population more able to learn new skills when required. Perhaps if it took more than having the tuition to get into institutes of higher education, we wouldn't have so many people out there with degrees, but no job skills.

    Sorry, this is a bit of a soap-box for me. I believe that the dumbing-down of our society is an intentional thing, and I am concerned about what this means for our future. You want to talk feudalism? With no job skills, and no ability to GET them, where does that leave our "educated" masses?
  15. Meerkat

    Meerkat Seeking The Truth


    I'm one who makes a lot of mistakes with grammar and spelling,partly because of typing keys that stick,no spell check that most use and just plain getting old.

    Education is not always why peopel don't do well as evidenced by Einstein who was well educated had the same problems with grammar and spelling,google it'.

    What you should be more concerned with is what is being taught in the schools now.

    Not to speak of so many who have an education yet don't have enough common sense to benefit from it.

    I took hort in college 20 yr.s ago.Lots of science.I was the oldest in my class and and my grades were above most of the young students there.Even though the lesbian professor hated me.
  16. *Andi

    *Andi Supporting Member

    "From Cambridge University .

    O lny srmat poelpe can raed tihs.
    I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, t he olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rgh it pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! if you can raed tihs psas it on !!"

  17. power

    power ExCommunicated

    Most people can get the meaning of what a person is trying to explain. Maybe it would be better if a person listened to what the other person was saying instead of looking for mistakes in grammar and punctuation.

    My grandfather never went to school, couldn't read, and could barely sign his own name. He raised 3 kids that didn't belong to him though and provided a good life for them. He owned his own business.
    Kids should know the skill of learning before they ever start school. Learning does not begin when they start school.

    I will agree with much you have said. Sports has become more important then basic schooling. We are the cause of that. We encouraged that when we decide to pass the kid who can't spell his name but is great on the football field.

    When I lived in Texas we had an outstanding football player in our school. Got a scholarship to college and then went into the pros. He was in on a drug deal gone bad where a man was killed and he wasn't allowed to play football anymore. He came back to his home town and started looking for a job. He wasn't able to fill out a job application, barely could print his name.
    He had a high school diploma and a college degree and could not write his name. He bought a shoeshine business but failed miserably as he couldn't keep records. The last I heard from him he worked as a jailer. His size was the deciding factor, that and the fact he was so dumb he would do whatever he was told to do without thinking.
  18. Meerkat

    Meerkat Seeking The Truth

    Now for the other side of the coin.

    Education is the building blocks of a civilized society.Our ancesters were educated and they founded the greatist nation on earth.Without higher education American never woudl have prospered and grew.

    I agree we need to have good grammar and an education,what I don't understand is why most don't understand that principles,morals and values are just as important.
  19. power

    power ExCommunicated

    Meerkat, I don't have a problem understanding what you post, don't always agree with you but I don't have any trouble reading it.
    I would rather spend my time thinking about what a person is saying rather than looking for misspelled words and missing periods.
  20. goshengirl

    goshengirl Supporting Member

    I don't believe the OP was indicating that education is more important than experience, or even talking about higher education. I think he was asking if, in a post-SHTF scenario, are we prepared to educate our children/grandchildren in the absence of government education systems.(Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

    As a homeschooler, I prep for education as much as I prep for food storage, etc. We've had our own mini-SHTF situation economically, so I've planned ahead a number of years and stocked up on the minimum materials we'd need to educate my son, just in case something happens.

    I never thought about it for non-homeschoolers before, but it does merit consideration - if you have a young child or grandchild, do you have what you need to teach that child to read? How about high school history? (I firmly agree with Jason - if we don't learn history, we are doomed to repeat it.)

    It's not higher education, just basic education. We do need that.