Does this sound bad to you?

Discussion in 'International Current News & Events' started by townparkradio, Nov 9, 2010.

  1. townparkradio

    townparkradio Family Friendly DJ

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    A little something I spotted in the news today:

    72% of black babies born to unwed moms; data revive debate | Moms | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

    Looks bad on the surface, doesn't it? Keep reading. The story focuses on Black folks but.. I don't care. I have a problem with something far below the headline. "The rate (of unwed mothers)for the overall U.S. population was 41 percent." Say what you will about the media presenting the problems of one racial group over another.. calling the bias anti-white or racist, and you can make arguments for both of those theories. Honestly I'll leave that to others, because, as I said, it's not my biggest concern.

    I'm personally wondering... why isn't the headline "2 out of 5 children born in America are bastards"? Yes, I used a bad word. A word that may even require this post to be screened before it hits the message board. You know what else it is? It is an accurate word. The word is supposed to be derogatory and carry shame because the concept the word describes is supposed to carry shame.

    I'm not completely heartless. I understand that.. life is a funny place, and strange things happen. hormones exist, and sometimes kids do stupid things. It happens, but it should not be THIS common! There's a difference between compassion for mistakes and flatout approving of them. 2 out of 5 says to me we are, as a society, approving of it.

    I was always careful, EXTREMELY careful to father no children. I am even a married man, and I will not father a child until I am sure I can provide a living for that child. The intermittent labor jobs, computer repair, and freelance writing I do? Not good enough. Can't raise a kid on that, so I won't do it. I have my failings as a man; I understand that I must tackle them first before I bring a child into this. Until I can make absolutely certain that my wife having a job is entirely optional, I am not ready to father a child.

    My friends all tell me I'm nuts. They tell me to go ahead, and that "the government" will take care of it. I'm told that "the government" will ensure that I am never homeless and starving, so long as I have a child. When I tell them that the concept of that is distasteful to me, I'm looked at as if I have a third head. to me it makes no sense, their attitude. A child is not to be the parent's security blanket. It is not the purpose of a child to bring in extra food stamps and welfare. It is the purpose of a father to provide for his children. If a child were to come along before I was capable of providing for that child.. you bet I'll take the welfare for as long as I need to.. but I would feel shame during that time period and be doing everything I can to rise above that shame and hold my head up as a man.

    But that's not where it stands anymore. Where it stands now, a father has become entirely optional. There is no shame in having.. well.. a bastard. this transcends race, it is a selfish reaction to a cultural phenomenon. the poorest of the poor have children to make their own lives easier. It's sickening, and you know what else? I have no solution to this. I can't think how to fix it.

    I don't know what to do. Even if I were "in charge" of the country I still wouldn't know what to do. You can't take the welfare away, because that will harm those who need it. You have to take the benefit of the doubt and.. dare I say it.. even allow people to BE lazy because, at the end of the day, it is not the child's fault; the child does not deserve to starve just because they were born to.. well.. to scum.

    Do we take the children away and then have the state raise them? A cursory glance at the molestation and abuse rates in state-run foster homes tells me no. the existing foster/ward of the state system needs to be overhauled before we can think of that.. not even counting the fact that tearing a child away form it's mother is horrible.

    Do we turn to the churches for help? A cursory glance at missionaries going to foreign countries and refusing to provide aid to those who will not convert, and the hours and hours of forced prayers church-based charities force the indigent to attend (thus ensuring a cycle of homelessness. Don't attend prayers? Can't get a bed. Have to be at prayers 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the evening? Good luck holding a job) tells me no. We can't force churches NOT to do things like that, because it is their choice who they aid. The government cannot tell churches what to do with their money, and it's evil to suggest it should be allowed to.

    Do we leave things how they are? A cursory glance at the rising crime rates since the 1960's tells me no. Something has to break. Something has to change. something has to be done... but I don't have any answers. On this, I am just another of the faceless crowd of people who complain about a situation without offering a solution. I am background noise. On this, all my learning and all my intellect comes to nothing.

    I can do what I do, and try my best to do right by my kids (when we begin in on them) but I cannot think of any way to ensure my children grow up in a safe society. A society where negative actions are accompanied by shame, and the people who want to do the right thing aren't looked at like they are insane... I know I want something safe and.. even moral, for my children, but the more I see the world around me the more I can't see what to do to fix it.

    There's no denouement to this rant, no trumpet-blowing self-righteous "I know what to do because I'm so smart" finish. There's only the same confusion I feel whenever I think about these things. The only thing I can think to do is raise my kids on small land in the middle of nowhere, willingly entering poverty to try to keep them with good family and a small, caring community. I'd rather be poor in the mountains than rich in the city but... that's only MY family.

    How do I help everyone else? What can _I_ do to fix it, to make things better, to ensure that there's still some safety left for my own grandchildren and their grandchildren? No idea, I'm clueless, I might as well be insentient. All I can think to do is harm none, and hope my own children spread this to others.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2010
  2. HarleyRider

    HarleyRider Comic Relief Member

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    :congrat::congrat::congrat::congrat::congrat:
     

  3. gypsysue

    gypsysue The wanderer

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    Probably the best thing you can do is what you're already doing...be a living example of your principles.

    :)
     
  4. thunderdan19

    thunderdan19 Shoots to Thrill

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    Don't worry. It'll all come crashing down when the government runs out of money to support those unwilling to support themselves. At that time, it'll be work or starve, just like it was 100 years ago. For now, just do the best you can and be responsible. Apparently no one else wants to, so that makes you an innovator, and thus a valued commodity among employers.
     
  5. SurviveNthrive

    SurviveNthrive a dude

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    And the rest of us pay for that life style.

    I need to move to a place where I'm not paying for other people's life choices at that level.

    But where is there to go?
     
  6. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

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    depends on what level you're willing to subsist on... let's just say that I usually 'fly under the radar' with regards to earned income vs. tax loopholes ;)
     
  7. thunderdan19

    thunderdan19 Shoots to Thrill

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    Having a bunch of kids, a couple mortgages and charitable contributions is also good for reducing the amount of tax taken and given to the bottom feeders.
     
  8. townparkradio

    townparkradio Family Friendly DJ

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    Sometimes I just see things that make me shake my head, ya know? I want to help.. there's enough of the old hippie in me that I still.. feel some pain for the world. I want to HELP. It's just.. now as a married man... I can't try to change the world anymore. I can only spend my energies to look after my own now.

    It still just.. rankles, ya know? People don't seem to give a damn. The headline mirrors my point.. it's about black people.. it's sensationalizing it for ratings. Negative or positive you get ratings, but it's missing the underlying issue. People will only argue about Black folks, rather than see that it's just a symptom of the underlying problem.
     
  9. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

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    now imagine the welfare problem if Roe vs. Wade was ever overturned... :scratch :mad:
     
  10. mosquitomountainman

    mosquitomountainman I invented the internet. :rofl:

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    You think the percentages of people on welfare was higher prior to Roe v. Wade?
     
  11. townparkradio

    townparkradio Family Friendly DJ

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    Much like you (I'm guessing) I doubt Roe V. Wade has anything at all to do with this on either side. I haven't heard of a lot of married couples who want abortions.

    Similarly, I haven't heard of a lot of unmarried persons interested in aborting their mealtickets.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  12. Woody

    Woody Woodchuck

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    You, me and a lot of others. This old hippie long ago gave up trying to help folks that would not try and help themselves, only come back for more help or handouts. I now look out for me and mine first, everyone else comes in a distant third. Yes, sad that I got to think like this but I see no use in wasting my resources to... well just wasting them. I alone cannot change the world like I used to think I could. Yeah, yeah, yeah we can all work together to bring peace, happiness and joy to the world. Road apples. The world ain’t never going to be a peaceful place and there will always be dickheads no matter what you do or where you go. I’ve gotten screwed by many folks in the past trying to help. One bitten twice shy kind of thing. Anymore I am very leery of anyone I do not know or that a friend does not know. Show me you are trying and I’m more than willing to help. Just coming up and asking for help isn’t going to get any response from me anymore.

    On the race thing. The media and Uncle Sam keep telling us that we should not consider race, creed, religion and all that other stuff. But, what do we hear from them? First black this, first Chicano that, only woman to this or that. And as you pointed out they do all their statistics by RACE! I don’t personally give a rat’s patootie what nationality, sex or sexual preference someone has I go by their ethics. I’m willing to give anyone a chance, once. Screw that up and it’ll take a long time to get my trust back. I can be your most trusted friend, or your most formidable enemy. You’re the one who makes the decision which one it is and color, sex and all the rest do not come into the equation at all.
     
  13. gypsysue

    gypsysue The wanderer

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    So...who has gotten the 49,551,703 that have been performed since 1973? I got that number a few minutes ago off of Abortion in the United States
    and who knows if it's an accurate number or if it's like unemployment statistics and figured in some funky way, but there's been and continue to be a LOT of abortions.

    So if most married couples don't have abortions, and most unmarried people don't want to abort their meal tickets, just who IS having the abortions?

    If none of those abortions had taken place, there would be a lot more people on welfare, I'm sure. At least some of those abortions were probably performed for "economic" reasons, people who realized they couldn't afford to raise a chld.

    In that case, too bad they ddin't consider adoption. There are some really worthy people out there who would love to raise a child.

    I would have gone, and did go to, whatever length I had to, to feed my kids, but I'm glad I didn't NOT have them because I was worried about feeding them. There were lean years with a lot of rice and beans, and a lot of back-breaking hours in the garden, a lot of wild game on the table.

    But the joy of raising my kids was worth every bit of it!
     
  14. mosquitomountainman

    mosquitomountainman I invented the internet. :rofl:

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    To assume that every child aborted is one less on the welfare roles is not a logical assumption. Many children who grew up in poverty have become productive citizens. Many of those aborted may have been doctors, mechanics, plumbers, computer programmers or any number of other options if they'd been given the chance to live. How many people on this board would have been a good candidate for abortion if it had been legal? How many were born under difficult circumstances yet your mother allowed you to live?

    Of even more importance, how many on this board born since Roe v. Wade have thanked your mothers for giving you the opportunities that 49 million plus mothers never gave their children?

    In fact, the least likely people to abort a bably are those who want one to get more money off the public dole. Like, TPR pointed out, why would someone like that kill their meal ticket? :gaah:

    Don't try to make this a poverty issue. Poor parents can often make very good parents. It's not about money. It's about pride and character and a lot of sacrifice and hard work.
     
  15. thunderdan19

    thunderdan19 Shoots to Thrill

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    Thanks for posting those numbers. It's a stark reminder of the "government approved" holocaust of the inconvenient results of casual sex (you know, potential human beings). Shame on us. Any one of those babies could have grown to find a cure for cancer, discover sources of clean, unlimited renewable energy, lead our country back to world prominance, etc.

    We may well have aborted our best and brightest, and look what we have to show for it, decline and the loss of our country's soul... Shame on us.
     
  16. SurviveNthrive

    SurviveNthrive a dude

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    I better just delete what I think about this issue...other than saying I'd like people to be responsible and at the same time, I'm tired of paying for the poor life choices of others so I'm conflicted.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  17. townparkradio

    townparkradio Family Friendly DJ

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    I probably should have been clearer in my statement. I have my doubts that abortion has anything to do with the _kind_ of unmarried persons who don't feel any shame in bastardy. I'm sure thousands of single women abort every year for economic reasons, but a certain class of woman is PROUD of having kids that the government must care for. I'm not a big fan of abortion myself, but I don't think making abortion illegal will cause any giant surge in the number of unwed mothers riding their children as meal tickets.
     
  18. townparkradio

    townparkradio Family Friendly DJ

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    What blows my mind is that people use abortion as a form of birth control. It's _really_ not hard to avoid pregnancy. Even if condoms didn't exist it's STILL not hard to avoid pregnancy even if you don't choose abstinence. I'm not going to get X-rated here but.. you can tell when you're in the danger zone; it's time to get outta there. I'm sure some people get pregnant from what occurs before orgasm, but it's got to be rare. I think the failure of that method is like the way condoms "fail". "Condom failure" reports are people who simply failed to wear one and pretend they did later.

    And then, of course, there's abstinence. That should BE the default method. Everything else should be statistical outliers. Teenage guys? There's other ways to deal with those excess hormones and desire to procreate, and it doesn't "prove you're a man" if you can get laid. I happily remained a virgin until I asked a woman to marry me. Unfortunately, we didn't get married, because I found out that she hadn't been saving herself for a committed relationship (or even had been faithful to me), but even then I did NOT get her pregnant.

    I'm since married to a wonderful woman for over two years and it's NOT hard to not get someone pregnant. Is it a little risky? Yeah. The fact is there IS some risk so I'd expect some failure... but there's no way there can be so MUCH failure that people use abortion as birth control. And if we did make a mistake and get pregnant? Well, time to bite the bullet and support that child as best I can.

    I'm all over the place on this one, aren't I? I'm not a big fan of abortion except for rape and incest... but gosh, if the alternative to being aborted is to be beaten, neglected, and molested in the foster care system... I just don't have the answers.

    People trying to outlaw abortions are skipping an incredibly vital step here, who is going to take care of the unwanted children? The foster system needs to be repaired first. What was it George Carlin said on the topic? "If you're pre-born, you're fine, if you're pre-schooled, you're ****ed" some of the same people who are against abortion are also against the school lunch program and welfare.

    Let's make sure the mother MUST have the kid, but when she does if she gives it away it'll have a size 11 rear end before the age of 5, or if she keeps it, let's not spend a cent to help raise it? Well what the hell is that?

    Failures happen. Sometimes kids are born out of wedlock. They should feel shame but we should help anyway.

    And you know what? It's not just the right I'm gonna condemn for this behavior as well. Back when Bristol Palin was found to be pregnant, I saw behavior which caused me to cease being a Democrat. They were cheering up and down about how Sarah Palin was a "hypocrite" for advocating abstinence and her own daughter having an unwed birth. How is that "hypocrisy"? What the hell was she supposed to do, set Bristol on fire or force her to have an abortion? Things happen and then you take care of it. How can they take such joy in misfortune happening to a woman who had to watch her daughter have a child while still a child herself? It sickened me that these lunatics piled on that poor woman.

    I'm not surprised she quit governorship. People wouldn't leave her alone to do her job.
     
  19. mosquitomountainman

    mosquitomountainman I invented the internet. :rofl:

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    Another misconception about "unwanted" children here. There are people waiting years for an adoptable child. There are people on waiting lists for special needs children. There is no reason to abort an "un-wanted" child because there are no unwanted children.
     
  20. SaskDame

    SaskDame Well-Known Member

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    I suspect those waiting lists would disappear quickly if all the aborted children and all the children born to single parents were available for adoption. And then there are all the children in the broken foster care system.

    I do not know how this society would manage that many adoptions anyway, much of the current waiting list are awaiting home studies to determine if they are elligible to adopt. And adoptions without the home studies are unthinkable given the endless news reports of autrocities against children.

    When courtship was chaporoned and suitors came with introductions and references, and parental consent was expected to be saught and recieved, and civil law suites for tampering with the emotions of a person could be pursued and won; there was some protection for the potential children of the next generation. In those days shame was attatched to elopements and unwed mother's were rare.

    These protections for young single people in perticular, and thier children yet unborn are the responsibility of the grand-parental generation. The social changes in courtship and family formation following WWII have apparently increased our personal freedoms and liberty beyond what can be sustained.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2010