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I hope no one will take this the wrong way, but I'm curious about objections to common core. I don't have kids currently in school, but do have grandkids that will be affected at some point. What is it that makes it so bad? Aren't some kind of standards a good idea?

I can understand the concern about specific liberal curriculum from 'outside' one's area being less than than desirable for most of us, but I'm totally confused about dictating specific outcomes? Shouldn't kids leaving elementary school in California have the same skills as kids leaving elementary school in Maine or Hawaii or Georgia? Does a HS diploma mean the same thing in Florida that it does in Illinois or Washington state?

I would think that, as a society, we'd want to be assured that every kid that graduates knows certain things, yes? Coming from a post-secondary life before retiring, I know how many kids are ill-prepared for higher education and life in general. They can't add/subtract, let alone figure out more complex mathematical equations. They can't communicate except by the texting 'code' of shortcuts -- most can't put together a complete sentence, let alone a coherent 5 paragraph essay about a subject (don't even discuss a traditional term paper of 10 or 15 pages!!!)

I guess, maybe what I'm really asking is 'what is an adequate education for today's world?' Thoughts?
 

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Those core values of pre-liberalism were civics classes (the American republican theory of rights, representation and rule of law), the three R's and the "golden rule."
My objection is that these core values were outlawed and discontinued.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Those core values of pre-liberalism were civics classes (the American republican theory of rights, representation and rule of law), the three R's and the "golden rule."
My objection is that these core values were outlawed and discontinued.
So, those types of classes/lesson are not included at all? I agree that they are very important and necessary to a well-rounded education. Are all 'common core' curricula the same across the country? What are the standards levels that are being taught toward? What skills does a student have to achieve? I'm totally in the dark about the whole thing.
 

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This is a very sore spot for em and I do notable children or grandchildren in the education system. I did copy and paste some links for you but each time I come back, they are gone. I did give you one link below. There are so many articles and videos that explain why it is so good. It indoctrinates our children. There will always be a child smarter than the next or we all would be doctors, lawyers, etc. this combines them all into one group. You know, everyone gets a trophy. Even little bobby that has skipped school for days and little Mary that was an A student is now a C student because we are all the same. The math is way beyond explaining,

ImageUploadedBySurvival Forum1394415288.744162.jpg
They no longer have to discuss anything with a parent. One test for 5 th grade had a list of 8 people, their ailments and what they do for a living. The child was then asked, you can only save 5 which would be more important to save their lives with the information you have. They are also changing history.

When someone asks me about the issue of Common Core, I have to ask, which issue?
The fact that they were written by trade organizations and not educators?

The fact that the were adopted without legislative approval?

The fact that they are inappropriate standards for early childhood?

The fact that they are lower standards than many of the standards we had in place?

The fact that they have no projected cost analysis?

The fact that they collect data on my children and family without my permission?

The fact that they include questions on tests that are inappropriate for my children?

The fact that they may be in violation of three federal laws governing education?

The fact that personal information is being sold to testing companies for profit?

The fact that teachers are being evaluated on the outcome of questionable and unproven tests?

The fact that school boards have lost all control over their schools?

The fact that the government changed laws to release personal data to virtually anyone?

The fact that these standards will not prepare students for a STEM career?

The fact that the methods used in math are frustrating, senseless and unproven?

The fact that they push the math sequence down by one year essentially eliminating Calculus in high school?

The fact that parents aren't allowed to see the test results?

The fact that the teachers don't have and don't understand the curriculum they've been forced to teach?

The fact that no one knows about what is happening in our schools?

Now, which issue would you like to start with?

That is the issue with Common Core.

Adapted from NY Against Common Core

http://www.theblaze.com/contributio...-common-core-will-destroy-american-education/

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I agree that kids all over the country should learn the same things and state specific stuff BUT, what about the kids who don't have adequate reading comprehension? What about the hand-on learners? Bub is on a 6th grade level (in 4th) but they refuse to advance him citing 'we don't do that anymore, he has to learn 4th grade stuff' when he did, before CC was implemented.

KY sold our kids out by implementing this moronic system and accepting the grant money for it.

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I've tried to type this message out three times and I just get so mad I can't continue. Common core is a joke. It was implemented by the federal government and foisted on public schools with a threat that if they didn't implement it, they wouldn't get federal funds. How many public schools do you know of are doing SO WELL financially that they can turn their noses up at federal funds? It wasn't tested by educators and it wasn't approved by school boards or parents. Nobody can understand how to teach it, the kids don't understand what they're supposed to be learning and it will leave the kids VERY ill prepared for college. Don't like it? Too bad! If you homeschool your kids using a different, time-tested curriculum you're in a pickle because SAT and ACT tests are being changed to fit into the common core parameters so your homeschool student will have a tough time getting high scores on those tests, IF you have been fortunate enough to find homeschookl material that has not been aligned with common core standards, which is getting harder and harder to do.
 

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What lilmissy said.

Too many problems with common core. My big gripes are the data collection and the dumbing down of America.

Why is a a common standard good? My entire life people have been talking about one school being better than another. Many choose to send their kids to the best schools. Common core lowers standards, this is not good. We do not want to bring everyone down to the lowest level. We want to give people chance to fight to the top.
 

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My 2 cents worth. My grandson was suppose to enter 1st grade.They sent a note home saying he should " be held back( this is in KY).So I went to the meeting with my daughter in law to see why???? The answer was,he couldn't tie his shoe,so I said, so he has "velcro" what difference does that make? but sat him down and taught him to tie his shoe in about 15 minutes.then he can't read well enough.My question was " what is your job discription???Do you now NOT teach children to read?They couldn't come up with another reason so let him in the 1st grade. Now they say he is not "fast enough" in his math or reading(he's in grade 3). We sent him to a "Sullivan" school(just to help him out) for the summer and they said he was up to par(and did VERY well) and he understood everything they gave him..Hmmm my thinking is while(Mom and Dad were) out of work the kids got the "free" breakfast program,they are now "profiling"him as "slow".I sat with him and he did his math just fine.Another meeting with his "teacher" and school board when I get off the ship (and yes they HATE to see me coming,because I stand up and ASK questions they can't answer!!!!):rolleyes::mad:
 

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Now you got me started!

I've tried to type this message out three times and I just get so mad I can't continue. Common core is a joke. It was implemented by the federal government and foisted on public schools with a threat that if they didn't implement it, they wouldn't get federal funds. How many public schools do you know of are doing SO WELL financially that they can turn their noses up at federal funds? It wasn't tested by educators and it wasn't approved by school boards or parents. Nobody can understand how to teach it, the kids don't understand what they're supposed to be learning and it will leave the kids VERY ill prepared for college. Don't like it? Too bad! If you homeschool your kids using a different, time-tested curriculum you're in a pickle because SAT and ACT tests are being changed to fit into the common core parameters so your homeschool student will have a tough time getting high scores on those tests, IF you have been fortunate enough to find homeschookl material that has not been aligned with common core standards, which is getting harder and harder to do.
Like much in life, educational curriculum trends are financially driven. I was in education as a classroom teacher, reading specialist, and tutor for decades. I have seen the waves of trends come through. When "standards" were written in the late 90s, someone told me they were driven by companies that benefit financially. Educational publishers hire lobbyists and you know how it goes from there. So when those standards were mostly financially done, they had to come up with something new. Common Core!

I was at a family funeral almost a year ago. My cousin's wife said she was retiring and NOT renewing her teacher's license. She was done. She said, "It seems as though what we have been doing is never good enough. They have to keep changing it and adding more work for educators, but not really educating better. By the time educators figure something out, something new is thrown at them." For her, a teacher for decades, it was time to retire. She had really planned on teaching for another 5 years, but realized that she was done. Common Core was the straw that finished her off. Her husband has had some struggles with work due to injuries and jobs being sent overseas, I think they both had planned to work as long as they could.

I haven't really had a chance to look at Common Core much, but as someone else who decided to retire last year as a teacher, I am working on developing many things that I designed and used over the years, to sell. Using my stuff day to day was very different than putting it together to sell. Places like ebay, Etsy and "Teachers Pay Teachers" and more, are great places to sell my materials. I know they will sell because of the constant requests by colleagues to get copies of my materials. For Teachers Pay Teachers, the related Common Core standards are to be "included" with the products so that teachers can account for which ones they fulfill when they use the products.

I have had to go into the standards and begin to really know them. I see what has been slashed out or removed from the previous standards.

Someone told me that they are meant to be much more hands on. I can't say that I know them well enough to address them, I just know that I have never known anything in all the "educational waves" that has had so many upset people, from educators to parents.

This was always my take as an educator who taught in the inner city for decades: Education is something that can never be taken away from anyone. It is a foundation that can be like sand, or rock strong. The higher the standards expected and taught to younger children, the better their following education possibilities will be. A child who isn't given a good start in education struggles educationally for the rest of their school life. Therefore, I always had higher standards than the administration expectations. What better thing can be done for or given to any child, poor, inner city or wealthy, than a good educational background? Any of my students who couldn't/wouldn't/didn't do homework, did it at recess time. "Why didn't/doesn't my child go out to recess?" "They are/were doing their homework." Sometimes, the most homework resistant children will start doing homework since recess is their favorite part of school. For some, it never changed. Learning is a lifestyle.

Education is not something that can be spoon fed. A learner cannot sit and expect someone to feed them every little bite. They have to be active about their learning. They have to be well rested, fed, and comfortable to be able to focus on learning. Not all underachievement in education can be blamed on teachers! Have you ever heard about parents having any blame? Rarely.

LazyDaisy, I have been typing here for more than an hour, typing, deleting, re-typing, deleting. I know I often go off on my own tangents. This is a troubling subject.

The best thing I can tell anyone with children who are in school: Do something educational with your children everyday: read to them or better yet, listen to them read and discuss what was read. Do some math facts aloud, focusing on a limited few target ones for the specific learner. Learn something historical, scientific, geographic or more. Make learning a family habit and interest. Research topics and discuss them. Practice learning new words, and better yet, roots, prefixes, suffixes and their origins and meanings. Learning is mostly free and is a great gift to give your family.

Do better than the expectations. You will have more successful children. So much of our society wants to be spoon fed everything.
 

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I sold my soul to The_Blob. He had candy...
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Sorry for the side track. Can someone please explain the "new way" in the picture. I am either too old or too stupid that I can not understand the way that works.

Edit: Added the picture. Sorry it didn't show up in the link.
 

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mdprepper--- welcome to our world. My sons math teacher cldnt understand it so he doesn't teach it.

If even the teachers don't know, how can we expect the kids to?

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Me preppers that's the point. It makes you want to say WHAT??
The Heritage Foundation has as started a blog for people to write their stories of CC. http://blog.heritage.org/2014/03/11...tories/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social There is also another example of a math problem.

I am listening to Buck Sexton this morning on The blaze Radio, and some lady called in and said her son just took his SAT test the other day and the last question that gives information on your writing skills, well the question was.... How does income equality help our society today? Oh my, my blood pressure went right thru the roof when I heard this.

What really makes me mad, on Facebook, people I went to school with and yes I was born in the sticks. They are so wrapped in their children with their dance classes, ball games, concerts, vacations and when I post anything about CC, not one of them comment or even like it. I would bet all the money I have that not even a fourth of them even know what it is. Who cares about education, my daughter is going to be a cheerleader.

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For some reason, I cannot find a copy of the Parcc Agreement with the testing tools. Anyone got it?

I did find this article http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/data-499062-schools-information.html

"The feds want to use schools to catalogue "attributes, dispositions, social skills, attitudes and intrapersonal resources - independent of intellectual ability," according to a February DOE report, all under the guise of education.
The report suggests researching how to measure and monitor these student attributes using "data mining" techniques and even functional magnetic resonance imaging, although it concedes "devices that measure EEG and skin conductance may not be practical for use in the classroom." It delightedly discusses experiments on how kids respond to computer tutors, using cameras to judge facial expressions, an electronic seat that judges posture, a pressure-sensitive computer mouse and a biometric wrap on kids' wrists.
And that's not all the feds want to know about your kids. The department is funding and mandating databases that could expand each kid's academic records into a comprehensive personal record including "health care history, disciplinary record, family income range, family voting status and religious affiliation," according to a 2012 Pioneer Institute report and the National Center for Educational Statistics. Under agreements every state signed to get 2009 stimulus funds, they must share students' academic data with the federal government."
 

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I hope no one will take this the wrong way, but I'm curious about objections to common core. I don't have kids currently in school, but do have grandkids that will be affected at some point. What is it that makes it so bad? Aren't some kind of standards a good idea?
Certainly it does make sense that the schools in Mississippi (recognized at the bottom or near the bottom in terms of graduating students from high school/test scores, etc.) are as good as and are teaching the same things (with local exceptions, of course, like state history and the like) as the schools in Maryland. However:

This article points out that no teachers were involved in the creation of the common core.

The common core is a boon for test makers like Pearson. Children are reduced to numbers on a test.

Test results are used to judge teachers' performance (so, you have a class with a lot of kids for whom English is their second language, new immigrants, and they don't do well. It's the teacher's fault that they can't test well in a foreign (to them still) language. Teacher standards need to be consistent, and teaching needs to be regarded as professional employment with high standards, instead of being the scapegoat for everything that goes wrong in schools (because it's not the teacher's fault if a child has never gone to preschool or day care or been exposed to numbers and letters and enters kindergarten without that knowledge and is far behind his or her peers from more affluent homes).

Bill Gates put big money behind the common core, and he knows nothing about education.

The entire process of the common core development is suspect.

The common core is not the best way to 'improve' education. A better way would be to force charter schools off the public teat [among other things] and put all the money we can into our schools, not only the physical facilities but teachers, teacher training, books, etc., etc.

[/rant]
 

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Me preppers that's the point. It makes you want to say WHAT??
The Heritage Foundation has as started a blog for people to write their stories of CC. http://blog.heritage.org/2014/03/11...tories/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social There is also another example of a math problem.

I am listening to Buck Sexton this morning on The blaze Radio, and some lady called in and said her son just took his SAT test the other day and the last question that gives information on your writing skills, well the question was.... How does income equality help our society today? Oh my, my blood pressure went right thru the roof when I heard this.

What really makes me mad, on Facebook, people I went to school with and yes I was born in the sticks. They are so wrapped in their children with their dance classes, ball games, concerts, vacations and when I post anything about CC, not one of them comment or even like it. I would bet all the money I have that not even a fourth of them even know what it is. Who cares about education, my daughter is going to be a cheerleader.

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Don't hold back tell us how you really feel :brickwall:

I said something about Nimod's the other day and had to explain it to a
25 year old even though they go to school it seems that what they learn is
so useless or debase and all the girls can tell you how to know if it is a Gucci purse or a knock off but otherwise they are unsophisticated
and have the table manners of a Trollop
 

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Don't hold back tell us how you really feel :brickwall:

I said something about Nimod's the other day and had to explain it to a
25 year old even though they go to school it seems that what they learn is
so useless or debase and all the girls can tell you how to know if it is a Gucci purse or a knock off but otherwise they are unsophisticated
and have the table manners of a Trollop
To be fair I get paid to take a fake Gucci (or Coach, Vutton, Kors etc) and make them look and pass for the real thing.

It is one of the things that pisses my SIL off. She spends the money (she doesn't have) on the real thing and I can make a $10 fake look real. But I am much happier with my custom handmade purses (made by me).

The joys of being a costume designer...
 

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I think it's all about numbers and total crap!.My grandkids are in school and I've had plenty to say to the teachers/and others when they didn't want my grandson to go to 1st grade because he couldn't tie his shoes(so I sat there and taught him to tie my shoes as he had on velcro).Anyway I ask my older grandkids about school and they don't teach Home Ed,or to much of the three R's...No wonder almost anyone under the age of thirty can't even boil an egg but can sure call for take out.Many have NO clue where Iraq is unless they have someone in the service.They now ONLY" print" in school,because they all use computers. Which I think will be a mess when. not if the grid goes down.We have lost in 99.9% of our homes respect of our parents much less grandparents .Honor is a word of the past too.Most people are shocked when my 4 year old granddaughter says excuse me mommy to speak if we are talking.She also uses yes please.It should start at home but as someone on here said they are tooooo concerned about soccer practice and designer clothes.Where will these children be when TSHTF and we have to trust,pull together,and respect order????Will they whine because their computers won't play a game or text or music.Will they even know how to play music,cook or keep their children from staving and warm...Nope we will loose many because they don't have a clue.Common core is another crap idea from the government.Teacher aren't allowed to teach,many have to buy their on supplies and goodness if we have a "problem child" it has to be the teachers fault not the parents and of course the poor dear has to be bipolar and isn't his/her fault either.So let's give them a drug so they can function
So I've gotten off subject here but where will it END????When can we take our lives back? Raise our children and grandchildren without the government stepping in telling us what to eat,breathe ,teach,listen to, what time to go to bed,who to vote for and if we can or cannot do anything without interference...Common Core is just the tip of the iceberg.:rantoff:
 

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Where will these children be when TSHTF and we have to trust,pull together,and respect order????Will they whine because their computers won't play a game or text or music.Will they even know how to play music,cook or keep their children from staving and warm...Nope
It will be a tremendously rude awakening for them.
Hopefully they would become motivated to help out by the growling of their stomachs.

Others... well, they might join up with those who are already making up the gangs of the cities.
 
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