Bullet point list for new preppers...

Discussion in 'General Preparedness Discussion' started by Goblin, Jul 21, 2009.

  1. Goblin

    Goblin Finger in the Fan Guy

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    with short attention spans! I'm a "list" guy and if you are also, this may help.

    General:

    Make your first goal a 30 day supply of the "Fab Four"... Food, Water, Fuel, and first aid.

    Decide if you will BUG-OUT or BUG-IN and supply accordingly.

    Prioritize your supplies based the most likely SHTF to occur in your area...flood, blizzard, etc.

    Tell only trusted family and friends that you are prepping.

    FOOD

    Store extended shelf life foods that do not require water to prepare!

    Store foods that can be easily rotated into daily use as they approach the freshness date

    Canned foods can provide meat, veggies, bread, dairy, and extra water.

    A small camp stove can be used for warming the food.

    Water

    1 gallon per person per day for drinking

    Don't forget the water in the water heater. It's ok for washing, the toilets, etc.

    If you have some warning, you can fill several 50 gal plastic trash cans for extra bathing and toilet water.

    Water can be treated by using 8 drops of bleach per gallon. Boiling is good if you have enough fuel.


    Light

    Kerosene\hurricane lamps are the best. Have one for each person and a gallon of fuel for each. This will be enough for the 30 day scenario.

    Small LED lanterns and flash lights can be used for personal needs or task specific lighting.

    Generators are great, but very expensive to buy and feed! If you're rich, go for it!


    Heat

    Do not use a camp stove for heat in an unventilated room. They do make "indoor-rated" propane heaters now. Get a couple of those and enough fuel for limited use. Warm clothing and bedding will do for most situations

    In a pinch, a large soup pot will make an emergency fire place if you can hunker down in the garage and vent the smoke out a window. Having a few of those man-made fire logs on hand wouldn't hurt.

    Protection

    12ga pump shotgun for the house

    A hi-cap concealable pistol for ea. adult.


    Extra Stuff

    Batteries
    Matches
    Disposable lighters
    Cell phone charger
    Radio
    Waterless soap
    Toilet paper

    These tips will help you to get started quickly.
     
  2. LittleFire

    LittleFire Well-Known Member

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    Not a bad list to start with for sure. I like it! If you live up North, like I do, make sure you have also a sleeping bag that is good to go below freezing for if you are not near a source of heat, this will come quite welcoming. Have one for every member of the family. And you can never go wrong with some tarps also....
     

  3. Canadian

    Canadian Well-Known Member

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    +1 on the -20 to -30 C sleeping bag if you're in the north.
     
  4. doc66

    doc66 Well-Known Member

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    As many here know (or maybe just a couple) my major disagreement with the list is the 12 gauge shotgun for many reasons. As a defensive firearm it is limited by a few things; number of rounds (a revolver holds more in most cases), the selection of rounds that people think will work (stay away from birdshot, its crap for defense, use 00 buck), and the belief that it can be used as a multi-purpose weapon. It can, but it is limited even in that. On top of those, the shotgun is punishing to the average shooter over a large round count.

    A better choice would be a military-based rifle, take your pick of your favorite. I realize that there are places that do not allow these, but even a Pistol Caliber Carbine is better defensively than a shotgun in many cases.

    Just my two cents as a firearms instructor and someone who teaches these things.
     
  5. sundevilkid

    sundevilkid New Member

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    Yes but nothing is better than a 12 gauge when it comes to intimidation factor, knock down power, and aim. It's easier to hit a moving target at short distances with the 12 gauge than it is with a rifle/pistol. I'm a pretty good shot with my 9, but my wife is not. 12 gauge would be more forgiving in those cases. Especially if you are using the 18" barrel instead of the longer barrels (keeping in mind we are talking close quarter combat, not long range hunting). I personally would like to own the Remingtion 870 express with the short barrel and 7 + 1 loader.
     
  6. sailaway

    sailaway Well-Known Member

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    As I've gone from age 44 to 48, my eyes have been changing. I haven't been for an eye exam due to no insurance, so I have several pair of drug store reading glasses. Keep at least one pair in your BOB and and another pair in your safe place.:)
     
  7. doc66

    doc66 Well-Known Member

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    This is an urban myth! It is not true at all!

    I can cite you many instances of shotguns FAILING to work. A shotgun is no more forgiving than any other firearm in your battery. It still has to be aimed, it has a limited range and it is punishing to the shooter. I would NEVER suggest that a female who is unused to firearms use a shotgun over a good PCC. I have years of experience in training not only LEO but civilians as well. I have failed many an officer from chiefs of police to "knowing" road officers who thought that the shotgun was something you could just "shoot" because they didn't understand that it has to be aimed like any other firearm.

    There is no substitute for training and proper firearm handling. A shotgun is not a mythical weapon that will make people quake in fear, blow holes in and through objects and send the person being shot across the room. There is no such a beast as Knock Down Power, and all shotgun stocks are too long for the average shooter, it is not an one size fits all weapon. The M4 carbine is a much better firearm in all aspects.

    Forget all that you've heard, It is a fallible as any other firearm out there.

    Training Schools will tell you all kinds of BS to get you to take their course, they will espouse all kinds of rhetoric about the shotgun and its uses. They just want your money. As do I want your money if you take one of my courses, but I'm not going to fill you full of BS about how great the weapon is. It is not. Suarez International will tell you the same thing. I'm not a big fan of the man per se, but he and I agree on many things in training, and the shotgun is one of them: it's not as wonderful as people want it to be.

    Check us out at www.milcopptactical.com

    Come and take our shotgun course, you'll learn a lot about how the shotgun really works and doesn't work.
     
  8. Expeditioner

    Expeditioner Well-Known Member

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    A 12 gauge can be an effective close quarter combat/home defense weapon. Is it the best.......depends on what weapons are available in your area, what you can afford, and of course the circumstances of the situation. Do I own a 12 gauge yes.....is it my only weapon? NO........

    As with any weapon....one must use the right load, properly maintain it, train with it, and understand its limitations. It has been my experience that most (not all) shotgun failures are the result of operator error or neglect.
     
  9. doc66

    doc66 Well-Known Member

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    Not true. Shotguns fail for those reasons and because people do not understand that they are very Limited in their loading for defense and they are NOT as effective as they are touted to be. I have reports of shotgun shootings where the failure was the slugs not stopping the fight after passing through the body, the buckshot failing to penetrate at range and numerous other instances where a .223 or even a well aimed pistol round would have done better and in a couple of the cases, the PISTOL stopped the fight, not the shotgun.

    I would take a Pistol Caliber Carbine (or a M4 carbine) over a shotgun on any given day. The PCC is lighter, carries more rounds and has faster followup shots than a shotgun with faster reloads and target acquisition. A Marlin Camp Carbine with a nice red dot in .45 ACP is a better choice for some place where you can't have an "assault weapon" and are limited to magazine capacity. You can get the Wilson Clinton mags (ten rounds) and be that far ahead of the shotgun for CQB.

    I'm not saying that it shouldn't be a part of the battery, but it should never be the go to weapon. There are numerous other firearms that are better suited to defense. Personally, the M4 style carbine is my go-to weapon. The shotgun for me, is third, after my Glock.
     
  10. Vertigo

    Vertigo Member

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    Some valid points have been made here and I must agree with you that a tactical shotgun has its limitations, as do many other firearms.

    However, as a simple home defensive measure, I believe a shotgun is great. But off course it must be used in the correct manner.

    If the perpetrator is already knocking down your front door and you (or your wife, children,... for that matter) still need to load your firearm before you can make your stand, then yeah, a shotgun is a bad idea.

    If you are planning to stop a group thugs at the end of your street, looting and who knows what in one of your neighbours' house, then yeah an assault rifle will give me more confidence (provided I at least trained with it)

    However, to go back to my statement that I believe a shotgun is great for in and (close-by) around the house, let me explain:

    I do some amount of clay-pigeon shooting each year and though this is not a true tactical training, like your school apparently offers, it does teach one something about the limitations and markmanship with this firearm. It is quick, quick to shoulder, quick to aim. It has a good balance, there are no 'additions' to take my focus away, it is devastating within about 25 meters (with the right load). My first round is (reasonably consistently) hitting a target smaller than one's head, travelling at about 60 km/h, about 15 to 35 metres away. Now, if one can do that for a clay pigeon, it should not be that hard for 2-legged critters. I am not saying it is an area-weapon, but it sure gives me more consistent hits on my clays than a semi-automatic rifle ever would.

    A second, in my opinion the most important, consideration is that of over penetration. I think one must agree that before using a firearm in-house (or outside in the backyard) in a populated neighbourhood should be evaded at all costs and if there is no option to turn away from the danger, special considerations for over-penetration are desirable. True, a shotgun with certain loads will still over-penetrate, but not even close to that of a semi-automatic rifle.

    Also, for many the issue of cost is a big plus for shotguns. A well made, simple shotgun can be had around here starting from 500 euro (about 700 dollar) for a new one or much cheaper for second hand. Before you tell me this is expensive, realise I live in Europe and firearms are not exactly cheap around here. A semi-automatic rifle in .223 would probably start around 1200 euro (about 1500 dollar) (and never mind the fact that I cannot own such a rifle, with a magazine of more than 3-5 rounds, unless a special extra permit is requested (and often denied)).

    And where cost is low for a shotgun, their value is great, most people with shotguns here use shotguns over 15 years old, which apart from some basic cleaning, have never needed any repairs or maintenance whatsoever.

    But this is of course my opinion and under no circumstance do I pretend to be an expert on the matter.

    greetz and take care,

    V.
     
  11. Expeditioner

    Expeditioner Well-Known Member

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    Very good points Vertigo! Experience is the only expert needed. What I use depends on the circumstances. I doubt anyone here would not hesitate to use a 12 guage of that was the only weapon available to them. If am unarmed and looking at the business end of a 12 gauge....I am sure as heck not going to say who I can take you because odds are your shotgun is going to fail.

    Anyway back on point...the orginal list is a good start. You need to be familiar with all your equipment.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
  12. NaeKid

    NaeKid YourAdministrator, eh?

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    I also do a fair bit of clay-pigeon shooting. I have used 10g, 12g and 20g guns to pick off the clays. From what I have watched, the 20g shot-gun is a great option for the ladies. It seems to be lighter and have less of a kick-back than a 12g. The ladies that I have shot with have a 90% hit rate (or better) with the 20g ... and closer to a 60% hit rate when using a 12g.

    There are all kinds of other guages of shot-guns (as described at this page) - but they don't seem to be as easily accessable as the 12g and 20g are.
     
  13. Vertigo

    Vertigo Member

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    A 10 gauge you say? Never even seen one, over here we have 12, 16, 20, but never a 10 gauge. It must kick like mule!

    But I must say that I am not very fond of the 20 gauge, there is in my experience not enough difference in kick to warrant the use of those less powerful rounds. Off course, this would not matter much when shooting clays, eh? :)
    Just my opinion I had when I was shooting a 20 gauge for a change after I was shooting 12 gauge the entire afternoon, so maybe my shoulder was just a slightly bit biased... :)

    V.
     
  14. NaeKid

    NaeKid YourAdministrator, eh?

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    Last weekend we sighted-in a few toys. Started out by sighting in a cross-bow, then a couple of .22's. Then we pulled out the 12g and took out the clay's .. then out came the 30-30 and the 30-06 and we sighted them in. Then we went back to the 12g and it was a PITA to hit the clays. Then we dug out the 20g and kept shootin' .. and we were able to hit the clays a bit easier.

    Just so that you know - my right shoulder is still bruised .. I had to skip my Tuesday-nite at the shooting-range due to lack-of-movement .. :cry:
     
  15. Vertigo

    Vertigo Member

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    good times for sure, at least you are having fun not just for one day then :) but for the rest of the week as well!

    V.
     
  16. doc66

    doc66 Well-Known Member

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    Vertigo, while your post is for your country, my post was for those here in the USA where we have far better choices for defensive firearms, the AR platform being one of the foremost choices out there. Your concerns about over penetration on the .223/5.56 are none-issues as that round over penetrates far less often than a 9mm which is why every PD SWAT team in the US is getting away from the HK MP5 and going to the M4 carbine. The round does not go through walls like the 9mm but it DOES penetrate effectively against soft targets that are soft-armored (jackets, leather, heavy clothing) unlike 00 Buck which has recorded failures against soft-armor at range.

    On another note, because I tend to rotate my defensive battery occasionally, my G19 being the constant, I AM currently sporting my Tac'ed-up 870 as the go-to long gun at the moment. It is stoked with seven rounds of Federal 00 Buck in the tube and five more on the buttstock sleeve. However, I still maintain that the AR platform is the way to go, I just like to be able to tell students that there are times that I too, run what I am teaching.
     
  17. Vertigo

    Vertigo Member

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    @ doc66,

    with all respect, I never intended my post to be exclusively related to my country, I just used European prices, because those I know more or less. I'm sure shotguns are, in general, also much cheaper than semi-automatic rifles in the US.

    Also, while 00 Buck might not always penetrate 'soft armor' aka normal clothes, I am pretty sure that if I were to shoot center mass at a perp at a distance of about 10 metres (in-house ranges), even with 'a heavy leather jacket', that guy will not get up in the first 5 minutes. The sheer impact will be enought to cause broken ribs, collapsed lungs, internal organ damage,... you name it. Or at least get him on his back, not understanding how he got there.

    I never said the shotgun is the best choice out there. If I really could choose, for home protection, I would probably rather have a platoon of marines :). There are better systems out there, but a shotgun is not a bad option per se like you appeared to say in your previous post. That was all I was trying to get across.

    greetz,

    V.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2009
  18. doc66

    doc66 Well-Known Member

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    Again. The shotgun does not cause massive damage to subject like everyone believes. I have seen shotgun wounds, and have personal knowledge of shotgun shootings, four of them off the top of my head and every person I've seen or know of hit by a shotgun has survived. Every single one. I can't say the same for people shot with pistols above 9mm or any rifle rounds except one; a 7.62x59 fired from over two miles away that skipped off the backstop and hit a guy washing his car. Shotguns do not cause massive internal bleeding, they don't break bones, they don't toss people to the ground. They are nine .32 caliber round balls with less penetration than most realize. They have no expansion powers, they do not penetrate all targets and they don't deliver massive bits of energy into a target. All they are are .32 caliber holes. They are effectively nine cap and ball rounds shot all at once. While at room distances, the shotgun is useful, it is not nearly as useful as a good pistol in the same space or a PCC or a faster, more accurate and easier to shoot 5.56 rifle.

    I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but I just believe that the shotgun, as a defensive weapon is highly overrated and not as useful as people want it to be. I depended on a shotgun for a large portion of my career as my primary long arm, but the day I was qualified to use my AR, as an instructor and road officer, I never looked back.

    There are much better rounds for defense. There are much better weapons as well. No, you are not going to have marines to back you up, so wouldn't you want the most effective weapon you can legally use? I could defend my home with my machinegun, but it's not the best weapon in my battery for that purpose.

    Neither is the shotgun. I have it as a secondary (or even third choice) with what I deem to be far better choices as my go to weapons. Yes, right now it is sitting out because I was rotating my long guns. I've even had my Scout Rifle in that role, not because it was the best choice, but because I like to be able to speak with knowledge about the subject of defense.

    I always tell my partner that he gets too worked up about this stuff, and I suppose that I do as well.

    Thanks for the replies, it helps me to think through my training courses.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2009
  19. Canadian

    Canadian Well-Known Member

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    Wow. I bet that shooting range was closed down in a hurry.
     
  20. doc66

    doc66 Well-Known Member

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    It was a private/backyard range and the shooter did not even know it had not hit the backstop. My Lt. was actually the one who figured it out by getting on Google maps and looking at satellite photos of the area. He spotted the makeshift range, drew a line fromt he victim to the range and it matched. Then it was door to door from there. The shooter was charged with a misdemeanor (can't remember the actual charge) and basically paid a fine.