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Discussion in 'Equipment & Survival Kits' started by Sentry18, Nov 3, 2017.
This is really interesting.
Pretty cool, it's SAAB's Barracuda system rebranded
I've been trying to find a price on those ceramic balls, to no avail. If I had a price, I'd know how big a room I could build/protect. Sent an email off, we'll see if they reply.
I know various manufactures make ceramic ball bearings of varying strengths. I wonder if those would work?
I'll look into that and see if the composition is the same or similar
Is it cheater than 1/4 inch steel plate?
It will be less labor, more then likely?
Easier then moving plate steel around to install it in the walls.
1/4" steel is not going to stop a rifle round, might not even stop handgun rounds like the 5.7x28mm.
I wonder if a mixture of ceramic balls, metal balls and say polymer balls would still get the job done?
I got safety training we used 1/4 steel targets, rounds shattered on impacted.
Why was that?
If they shattered they might have been frangible rounds or soft lead of some kind or training ammo. 1/8-1/4 steel plates are used for handgun training (shooting plates) and will stop most handgun rounds, but eventually the steel will soften and weaken from repeated impacts. They will also stop smaller rifle rounds for a time, but again the right bullet or load will still penetrate. Medium barrier penetrators like M855 (5.56mm steel core) might even penetrate 1/4" steel. A larger caliber rifle round, especially in .308 or larger, will poke holes right through 1/4" plate steel. For .308 you need 1/2" steel to reliably stop a bullet, unless that .308 is armor piecing and then you need a whole lot more.
Using steel for protection is best accomplished by layering it with other materials.
Here is an article on that very concept.
Sand, in the form of sandbags, has been used by the military for many years. There are probably many reasons it is used, including the fact that sand is available and cheap (free), but it wouldn’t be used unless it worked.
So, how well does it work?
I could have just shot sand bags, but sand bags come in many forms and sizes. And, it would matter how they were stacked, end-wise, sideways, etc.
But the main problem would be that there would be no way for me to accurately measure exactly how many inches of sand had been penetrated.
I determined that I would build some boxes with drywall on each side to hold the sand.
We had learned in past tests that drywall doesn’t do a very good job of stopping bullets, so it shouldn’t overly affect the tests. This would allow me to exactly measure how much sand each round penetrated.
The boxes were each made from 2 X 6 lumber, so there was 5 1/2 inches of depth of sand in each box. Both sides of the boxes were covered with a 1/2 inch piece of drywall.
I wasn’t sure how much sand it would take to stop a bullet, so I built 4 boxes. Turns out I “over-built”.
Okay, enough talking, let’s start shooting.
First, a .22 LR from a .22 revolver.
Didn’t expect much penetration, but it went about 5 inches into the sand.
Then 9mm Ball.
The 9mm Ball went all the way through the first box and stopped before entering the second box.
It dimpled the back of the drywall, but did not exit.
Then .45ACP Ball.
The .45 ACP penetrated the same as the 9 mm, about 6 inches.
You could just see the nose of the bullet just starting to exit the first box.
As a side note, it is always a matter of luck to catch a really neat photo while shooting, and we got one today.
I blew this one up a little. The 1911 is just opening up after firing and you can still see burning powder coming out the barrel.
Time for rifles.
First, Tman shooting a 5.56mm XM-193 Ball out of a 20″ AR15.
To our surprise, it completely disintegrated and we only found very small pieces of jacket.
It did not even reach the back of the box.
Then a 7.62 X 51 from a FAL.
It did not reach the back of the first box.
These are the biggest pieces we could recover of the .308.
Will a 12 gauge slug penetrate this medium? Let’s see.
The slug did not exit the first box.
Tman caught me in full recoil.
This is the slug as recovered.
And, as a lark, the .45-70.
The hard-cast 510 grain, gas-checked round nose was stopped in the first box.
You can see that it still has the gas check on the base of the bullet.
This is it.
I had read the some rounds actually penetrate better at longer ranges, so, we backed up 100 yards from the boxes and tried some rifle rounds again.
We tried both the .223 and the .308.
Both rounds still did not exit the first box.
We recovered the 7.62 X 51, and this is the biggest piece.
You could almost reload the pistol bullets and shoot them again
For comparison, these are the 9mm and .45 ACP.
It’s still fun to shoot stuff.
Sand is a very good barrier. Nothing we shot penetrated more than 6 inches into the sand. Does that mean I would hide behind 6 inches of sand and let someone shoot at me? No way!! I’d rather have 60 feet of sand in front of me. But 6 inches seems to work pretty well for the rounds tested.
To our surprise, the pistol rounds penetrated deeper than the rifle rounds. Why? The pistol rounds held together better as they were ball and didn’t have enough velocity to break them apart. Therefore, they held together and penetrated better. The rifle rounds were traveling at such a high velocity that they broke up into pieces and this stopped their penetration quicker.
The 12 gauge slug finally met it’s match with sand. The soft lead slug was flattened out and stopped quickly.
The .45-70 hard-cast bullet penetrated a little better than the soft lead slug, but not a lot. And the sand tore it up pretty quickly.
And lastly, sand is a good barricade material.
Nope, sure didn't. I hate that light blue, especially on my laptop.
Looks like a more commercial version of a Skousen wall
My dad has a 1/4 plate deer that he cut out with a torch. It has dimples all over it from a 30-06 bit it also has 3 holes from a 308. Went though 1/4 plate like it was butter. I have also seen a tokarev 7.62x25 blow right through 1/4 plate.
One reason that bullets don't penetrate steel plate targets is because of flexing. The give and flexibility of the target and stand, just like a Kevlar vest hanging will stop bullets, a Kevlar vest with heavy backing (berm) will be penetrated by bullets.
Try nylon/fiberglass fabric with resin and hardener, cross wefting the weave and a layer of hardener/resin between each sheet of fabric and one inch is supposed to be able to stop a 30'06 round if properly constructed.
Suppose one were to make a fiberglass frame one inch thick, with two or three inches of Scandef's ball bearings and a fiberglass plate a quarter of an inch on the inside of the room? Would that stop a .50 cal from a Ma Deuce?
For what it's wroth, I had a "critical mass target (head and torso) made of 1/8" hanging on chains. A .22 fired out of a rifle or handgun at 20-40 yds splattered leaving a shiny mark, and a 9mm JHP 115 gr. would make a bigger shiny mark and you could see where the JHP struck, make the target move (swing). Hitting it with a .357 would put a deeper dent and there would be no doubt it was hit. A friend of a friend came by when I wasn't home and fired off a magazine of .223 - FMJ my target needs help. A 1/4" steel target hit by a .357 JHP 158gr. goes down and moves back some with very little damage to the steel . If the target is big you have to hit the top to make it fall if you use a .22. Using a .44 JHP 240 gr. at 1200 fps+ pushes the target back a few feet and begins to dent the target. A .45 cal. ball out of a muzzle loader will put a little bigger dent in the steel. If you put the 1/4 " plate out at 100 yds, please, don't shoot at it with Nosler partition bullets in 6mm, .257 Weatherby ,or .30-06 or bigger. I did buy a couple of steel swing targets Cabelas sells AS 500 armor plate, however, there is AS 800 available.
Try pea gravel , It is almost free and has worked better for me, then sand with rifle rounds. Let me know. They have a film for hurricane areas that is supposed to help with glass, I have not got any yet to try, but claims are, on a car windshield it will stop .223. (DARPA) has a new glass that stops a 50 BMG in 1.5 inchs and takes multi hits. Thanks for the test great info.
Theses are fascinating responses on a subject I know nothing of. I was just going to use sandbags at BOL where I can fill them. Here at BIL I think about where I could dig to fill some bags, but will dirt work as well as sand? Eventually I would use the dirt in my gardens after the turmoil, if it ever settles down.
" The good guys aren't coming"
I have filled untold # of sand bags. Soil as opposed to sand will not stop bullets the same ,depends on type of soil. you may need thicker walls / bags. Only way is to build a small emplacement and try it. Please note when you try different fillers and containment how much/how long it takes filler to run out or disperse. You should go down/think foxhole as well . Have fun. Pick up a few Army TM's they will help and are cheap.
Looks like a good alternative to sand.
Doesn't go out the holes.