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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Dear J&G Customer,
This is a special notice to warn you of impending new gun regulation. The ATF has proposed to require gun dealers to provide directly to the ATF the names, addresses, and serial numbers for every purchase of two or more semi auto, mag fed rifles within a five day period!! They are trying to force this in by January 5th, without any approval from Congress, calling it a needed "emergency" regulation. This is backdoor registration of guns and gunowners.

Here is a quote from the notice by the NSSF (National Shooting Sports Foundation) regarding this burdensome and illegal move:

"The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is moving to require federally licensed firearms retailers to report multiple sales of modern sporting rifles beginning January 5, 2011. Specifically, the ATF requirement calls for firearms retailers to report multiple sales, or other dispositions, of two or more .22 caliber or larger semi-automatic rifles that are capable of accepting a detachable magazine and are purchased by the same individual within five consecutive business days."

We are encouraging everyone to contact the relevant officials to protest this move. The office that approves regulation changes like this that bypass Congress is the Office of Information and Regulation affairs of the DOJ and they can be reached at 202-395-6466 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 202-395-6466 end_of_the_skype_highlighting. You can call your Senator and Representative at the US Capitol switchboard at 202-224-3121 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 202-224-3121 end_of_the_skype_highlighting.

The NSSF offers the following points to make when calling

1. "Multiple sales reporting of long guns will actually make it more difficult for licensed retailers to help law enforcement as traffickers modify their illegal schemes to circumvent the reporting requirement. Traffickers will go further underground, hiring more people to buy their firearms. This will make it much harder for retailers to identify and report suspicious behavior to law enforcement."
2. "Long guns are rarely used in crime (Bureau of Justice Statistics)."
3. "Imposing multiple sales-reporting requirements for long guns would further add to the already extensive paperwork and record-keeping requirements burdening America's retailers - where a single mistake could cost them their license and even land them in jail."
4. "Last year, ATF inspected 2,000 retailers in border states and only two licenses were revoked (0.1%). These revocations were for reasons unknown and could have had nothing to do with illicit trafficking of guns; furthermore, no dealers were charged with any criminal wrongdoing."
5. "According to ATF, the average age of a firearm recovered in the United States is 11 years old. In Mexico it's more than 14 years old. This demonstrates that criminals are not using new guns bought from retailers in the states."
6. "Congress, when it enacted multiple sales reporting for handguns, could have required multiple sales of long guns - it specifically chose not to."

Read the full notice by the NSSF here:
ATF to Require Multiple Sales Reports for Long Guns | NSSF Blog

Read the full ATF document proposing this illegal move here: (PDF)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/atf.pdf
 

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From the BATF document: "If granted, the emergency
approval is only valid for 180 days."

Sounds like a "temporary" research project for the Gun Control groups.:sssh:
 

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a dude
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Mostl likely reason...

The ATF will set up another of their clown job operations. In this one, one of their informants will set up sales from gun shows and gun dealers directly to some Mexican cartel or gang and this will finally show direct proof of a stream of firearms being sold in the United States and the Feds can do legislation geared at our firearms in the magazine fed long arm category.

Less likely reason...

If I were cynical, kicking in my fictin writers side and remembered how we'd have an odd mass killing by a nutjob at precise moments with massive gun legislation pending in the 1980's and 1990's, this is one of those black flag type situations. They happen to have precise, detailed way of tracking something to show something, which will be followed by an event. The system needs to only be in place for a while.

Some forget that for a while an odd pattern existed...a narrow profile of killers all balding, middle aged white males with facial hair, failures in life, slightly above average intelligence committed murders like the McDonald's Massacre and other shootings with were in prime position for pending gun legislation, almost on cue. As time passed, the age of these shooters seemed to go up correspondingly. Then these specific types got merged with copy cats and the regular nut jobs that happened.

If this follows the old pattern, there will be an event which defies the narrow stats of limited use of 'assault type rifles' used in crimes.

There's a reason and it's not merely a study. It's a set up.

Of course many of the weapons can be traced to the United States, the Feds provide them to their Mexican counterparts who have massive numbers of dirty cops and soldiers who sell the firearms to the cartels, and the same happens with purchased weapons for law enforcement in that country. Doesn't it dawn on our liberals that the same models of firearms displayed are the same models carried by the agents guarding them?

 

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a dude
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checking around...yeppers...it's the Mexicans buying guns thing.

They can't clean house so we always get blamed and stuck with their problems. I bet the Canadians feel the same way about us.
 

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Again?

Oh,its been a law to turn in anyone buying more than one handgun a week for years now...
 

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a dude
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This isn't about handguns, it's about long guns, magazine fed.
 

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This only strengthens my resolve to get that AR 15 I always wanted. Can't wait to get my concealed! Possibly a class 3 after that. Only a long term goal though. ;)

Back to the ATF, this is a crappy way to get legislature around congress. If they think its so Important why wouldn't they want everyone to know about the new law, and promote their anti-gun agenda.

When they outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.
 

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The Aussies used a convenient mass shooting to fuel their gun grab. If I can find the link I will come back and post it. I read the story a couple of months ago but i can't remember where. This 'double rifle sale' reporting goal is one they keep trying for on the semi-autos. They try to scare the uninformed public into thinking that these guns are escalating crime when in reality they are very rarely used in committing one.
 

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a dude
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I follow laws and have no intention of doing anything illegal. I've no problems with most law enforcement agencies, however, for many years I've disliked the ATF, as opposed to most other Federal agencies and I knew I'm biased as a supporter of our right to bear arms...but I've other experiences...I wonder if I'm being unfair.

I formed an opinion based on what I've seen of them. The most recent one was when a local female ATF Agent seized airsoft toys and called them machineguns and said they could easily be made to fire real M16 bullets! Then they had another ATF guy showing one of the items and he tried to insert the curved magazine backwards!


Not exactly confidence inspiring. http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-...ees-question-fitness-of-agent-toy-gun-seizure

The only individual I knew who went into the ATF as far as I know, as a fellow Lieutenant in the Army. This guy literally was a 'rat bastard'. He'd set up someone in a heartbeat and he'd turn in his own mother. When he previously worked at a mental institution he told me that they'd a psycho who had a knack for getting out of his cell, getting to the nurse, and raping and sexually mutilating her, so badly that if she wasn't hospitalized for life, she'd be medically retired. This happened repeatedly, he told us. If the nurse was a male, nothing happened. The policy was staff were not to talk about past misbehaviors of the inmates with new staff as the focus was on treating all as dangerous. Then a young, pretty nurse with children came to work there. He said he almost felt like telling her so she might consider quitting. He didn't because it was policy and the inevitiable happened. He used this as an example of policy and regulations during a discussion on ethics!

Now if he's the sort they hire, I'm correct in distrusting them...but it's not fair for me to label them based on the mistakes in th past, and the one example of human debris I met...does anyone have any positive or negative personal experience with the ATF?
 

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Survive, I am upper middle age and was raised to believe that the policeman was our friend. But either that wasn't true then or things have changed.

So many examples of blatant elitism......from the irritating such as the majority of PA State Troopers driving like punk kids to the much more serious:
One of my employees was an outstanding competition combat shooter. He often shot against local, state and fed LEOs. So many times after a weekend shoot he'd shake his head and say something like, "Man. Listening to some of those guys (LEOs), they are just waiting for the chance to pop someone".

And the arrogance. A few years ago I advertised an opening for one of our rental apartments. A guy showed up and parked in the neighbor's driveway. I asked him politely to move his truck so the neighbor wouldn't be blocked in. He said, "Oh, he'll be alright." I responded, "No. He won't be alright. Move your Truck." The SOB actually pulled out his PA Trooper ID and forcefully said, "I'm a Trooper."

I usually have good control of my temper, but his arrogance really pi$$ed me off. I said, "I don't give a $hit if you are Mother Theresa, move your F**king truck."

He took one step toward me and I said, "WHO IS YOUR SUPERVISOR?!" He stopped, leaned toward me and said, "F**k you." He then turned and left.

I can't help but come to the conclusion that more and more LEOs have become blatantly arrogant and elitist.
 

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Working at the courthouse I have had to opportunity to speak with several LEO. My biggest shock was a conversation with the top officer from one of our smaller towns. He was upset because he had to come to court to testify. Said if he had his way anyone he caught breaking the law in any way would be shot on the spot. In his opinion this would save everyone time and money. I could tell by the look on his face and the tone of his voice he was serious. Frightening isn't it.
 

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I invented the internet. :rofl:
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IIRC. The law itself is really no big deal, it's the attitude behind it that is dangerous. Nobody currently, at least, needs to be in that big a hurry to get a "battery" together. All you really need is one rifle and one pistol, if you know what to get and how to use it. That's certainly all you can carry, along with the BOB.
It's the concept behind the law that is dangerous. What gives any government organizatin the right to limit the purchases of an inanimate item unless they have a real (not phony) reason to believe those items will be used for nefarious purposes?

I can think of lots of reasons a person may want to purchase more than one firearm (handgun or any other type) at the same time. Some of the reason's I've done it include: I came into some "extra" (as in not designated for regular expenditures) money through a couple of ways (tax refund, inheritance) and used it to purchase firearms I'd wanted for quite some time. Anaother time was when some were on sale. Another time when the wife and I wanted matching firearms. Were these emergencies? No. Could we have "waited?" Yes. But why should we?

No waiting period or law prohibiting the purchase of firearms by law-abiding citizens has ever stopped criminals from getting firearms. When I was a kid we MADE guns out of scrap metal. It's so simple a child can do it (and many did).

After the Clinton gun ban and waiting period our Sheriff was asked about the effect of a waiting period to purchase a firearm. He asked what was the point of making a person wait to purchase a gun to prevent a "crime of passion" when they already had guns at home?

This BS proposed by the gun banners is nonsense and just another way for the government to control our lives. The more people accept this nonsense the less freedom they deserve.
 

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This is about disarming the American citizen this has NOTHING what so ever to do with Mexico.

...most of the firearms seized from the cartels do not come from the United States. The claim that "90 percent" of Mexican "crime guns" originate in the U.S. is false. It does not relate to all firearms the Mexicans have seized from the cartels, but only to guns that the Mexicans have asked the BATFE to trace. As the Government Accountability Office has explained, "In 2008, of the almost 30,000 firearms that the Mexican Attorney General's office said were seized, only around 7,200, or approximately a quarter, were submitted to [BATFE] for tracing." The 6,700 guns that BATFE traced to the U.S. accounted for about 90 percent of the 7,200 guns that BATFE traced, but only 22 percent of all firearms seized by the Mexican government.

Source NRA-ILA
So to sum it up of the 30,000 guns seized only 6,700 came from the US. most of which if you do more research turn out to be stolen not purchased.
:mad:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Logic says.........

That in a country as corrupt as Mexico has "ALWAYS" been... getting full auto weapons in is as simple as having a ship , say from China , dock in any Mexican sea port and unload a container of weapons..

OR

Since the US armed half of South America in it's battle with Commie groups the areas below the border are awash with M-16's as well as anything else...

The US left how many million M-16's M-60's and god alone knows what all sitting in South Viet Nam... those weapons were worth a lot of $$ and I'm sure the North sold most of them...

Anybody who can walk 50 pounds of Coke or pot across the border can also carry weapons back but I doubt they are doing that..

It never ceases to amaze me how we ( meaning Americans ) who live in a free nation with rights unheard of in other countries are scared to say truth out loud..

Lets try it ok ?...

Our Government is owned lock , stock and barrel by big money, our so called leadership is just as corrupt as the one in Mexico ( they just dress and smell better ) has sold us down the drain.

And We Know It !!!

Our Constitution is being shredded more every day and we know it , and we sit on our asses and do nothing! I get a dozen e mails daily screaming that I should write my congress critters, WHY?? they don't read the letters , they don't care!!..

And We Know It !!

They and their bosses are scared of only one thing , that's that we are an armed people , their open plans depend on disarming us , then we become slaves..

And We Know It !!

When they finely get a law past outlawing ownership of most weapons over half of all gun owners will turn them in ( witness England and Auzzieland ) and cry as they are chopped...

Of the remaining 50 % I'd say 40 % will hide theirs away never to see the light of day again..

The 20 % left will for the most part keep theirs handy but 17% will never have the will to use them....

But Ahhh , we are now down to the 3% who keep theirs handy and most likely have the balls to fight back...

What is a "Three Percenter"?
During the American Revolution, the active forces in the field against the King's tyranny never amounted to more than 3% of the colonists. They were in turn actively supported by perhaps 10% of the population. In addition to these revolutionaries were perhaps another 20% who favored their cause but did little or nothing to support it. Another one-third of the population sided with the King (by the end of the war there were actually more Americans fighting FOR the King than there were in the field against him) and the final third took no side, blew with the wind and took what came.

Three Percenters today do not claim that we represent 3% of the American people, although we might. That theory has not yet been tested. We DO claim that we represent at least 3% of American gun owners, which is still a healthy number somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 million people. History, for good or ill, is made by determined minorities. We are one such minority. So too are the current enemies of the Founders' Republic. What remains, then, is the test of will and skill to determine who shall shape the future of our nation.

The Three Percent today are gun owners who will not disarm, will not compromise and will no longer back up at the passage of the next gun control act. Three Percenters say quite explicitly that we will not obey any further circumscription of our traditional liberties and will defend ourselves if attacked. We intend to maintain our God-given natural rights to liberty and property, and that means most especially the right to keep and bear arms. Thus, we are committed to the restoration of the Founders' Republic, and are willing to fight, die and, if forced by any would-be oppressor, to kill in the defense of ourselves and the Constitution that we all took an oath to uphold against enemies foreign and domestic.

We are the people that the collectivists who now control the government should leave alone if they wish to continue unfettered oxygen consumption. We are the Three Percent. Attempt to further oppress us at your peril. To put it bluntly, leave us the hell alone. Or, if you feel froggy, go ahead AND WATCH WHAT HAPPENS.

So what is it we fear? death? it comes for all... for me loss of the right to own and use firearms is worse then death.. because it's the loss of freedom...

So.. are you a 97 % ? or a 3 % 'er ? that really is the question.. what do we fear? hell I see people taking to the streets all over the world fighting the JBT's , throwing rocks and screaming out against wrong..

But not here in the Land of the Free... certainly not the home of the brave..?? no not any more.. our leadership don't fear us ,so they don't need to respect us.. and they don't fear us because they know we are a nation of fearful sheeple..

It is time to stop walking willingly to our doom and stand up and scream and throw rocks... shit if the worthless French can do it why not us?....

Yes I know it boils down to the issue of who will go first? who will throw that first rock? who will fire the Second Shot heard Round the World!???

"All politics in this country now is just dress rehearsal for civil war." -- Billy Beck, August 2009.

Sipsey Street Irregulars look this over , think about the future your kids face, is it the one you want for them?....

When do we say enough ! stop before you push us one step too far..to your demise?

These kinds of words are just that ...Words.. or as the Obamafairy said..."Words...just Words".. until WE THE PEOPLE make them action...

The Revolution is coming.. and it will be bloody, and we may not win.. but we will die as men not slaves... When that time comes..will you stand? or kneel?...
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The single men, no families, nothing to lose, so to speak. Nobody dependent upon them, not already "sold out" to Big Brother.
That many MIGHT fight, but they don't have a clue how to make it count. It won't be about guns,it will be about taking BB's money source, the tax base, the economy. It will only take 1000 men, doing the right things, to destroy the US economy in a month. The issue is, are they willing to tear down everything, and will what arises from the ashes be any better? I doubt it, a lot.
Francon..I have not a clue to what your talking about.. I have no doubt our entire economy can be crashed in a heart beat , not by a thousand, but by a dozen... they are the dozen who control just about everything...

As to the rich and powerful, they aren't Americans, or English, or whatever they do not see themselves as a nationality , they see themselves as above those labels .. they are "People of the World".. and no I don't believe 1000 can take them down.. because any thousand with that ability are already sitting at the feet of these 12..

You can't break them, you can't kill them, their security is tighter then any President or King...

You can not reason with them, you can not convince them , you can't get to them to kill them... most know they will never see the end of the game , but have prepared it that their heirs will ..

Our only real hope will have to start in the small towns and cities, good people taking back their local governments, school boards, Chambers of Commerce ..anything that holds some control has to be in the hands of honest Constitutional Conservatives..

Win the small battles, then move on the the bigger cities , then the state governments.. start following the Constitution "States Rights" over Federal Controls... we don't have to control DC , we have to control our state and local governments.. without control of the states the Fed has nothing... the Fed is a blood sucking monster that can not truly live in the light of the Constitutions Sun...

Sadly.. it won't happen that way.. maybe later... but first the chains of the Fed must be broken , the Soap box never had a chance , the Ballot Box has already failed and will continue to fail... leaving only the cartridge box... just not yet.. the freedom loving people aren't ready yet, but it's coming, sooner or later the ObamaFairy will wave his magic wand and something will happen.. someplace someone will be targeted to be an example and I believe it will blow up in their faces and after that I guess we will see..

Is it dangerous to speak this way?? Maybe!! but it shouldn't be , it wasn't meant to be by the Founding Fathers.. they meant for free men to stand up with free speech and not fear...

Hell they are working night and day to shut down the internet because it's as important to the future of Freedom as the Rifle... instant communication with the world!!... during the atrocity of Waco a internet hook up and a web cam might have shown the world things that would have sent the Federal blood suckers running for the dark...

No, I'm sorry to say I believe there is only one hope for America , and only one road to get there and it's following the same path that our Forefathers took..
This is all just IMHO... YMMV... I'd love to see life go back to the 50's after WW2... just without the FedGov hanging over every aspect of life ..

States rights , there is the battle ground, There is where the fight must start and hopefully finish...

So what do I think freedom is?... I have no issue with paying a fair tax..to the state I live in.. after that let the state pay a small portion to the fed.. if a state wants to have a welfare class then the people can decide.. if they say no , then the permanent baby producer welfare types can move to a state that is "enlightened".. let the Kalifornias do it their way, just not export it to my state... work if your able or starve if you are but won't ...

Hell I believe in Prison farms,they grow it they eat it..and for the truly bad..chain gangs..tired prisoners aren't as much trouble as well fed rested bored weight pumpers.. work or starve...

why should my money go to pay for non working voters who vote for the party of Socialism , whose goals are to disarm me so I can be a productive slave working to keep their voters loyal?

Why should my money pay for a school system bent on producing good little Socialist ?

I won't bore yawl any more.. you can see the path I'm taking.. agree or disagree.. we as a nation are heading down a slippery slope and the ways to stop are running out...

A sharp wooden stake thru the heart of the beast is the only way to stop it... or maybe wooden bullets! :D:D
 
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