Alexander Fraser Tyler, Cycle Of Democracy (1770)

Discussion in 'Politics' started by longtime, Mar 31, 2010.

  1. longtime

    longtime Well-Known Member

    A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over lousy fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average of the world’s great civilizations before they decline has been 200 years. These nations have progressed in this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; from faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to Complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependency; from dependency back again to bondage.

    Where are we NOW?
  2. TechAdmin

    TechAdmin Administrator Staff Member

    All the above. In some form or another.

  3. kogneto

    kogneto The Skeptic

    i agree with Dean, here's some context regarding the quote
  4. piglett

    piglett Well-Known Member


    d i t t o !

  5. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

    I guess it's a good thing we DON'T live in a 'democracy', but in a Constitutional Republic then :D ;)

    wasn't that guy a British Lord during the Revolutionary War? :hmmm:
  6. horseman09

    horseman09 Well-Known Member

    Tytler stated, " In every instance of election by the mass of a people--through the influence of those governors themselves, and by means the most opposite to a free and disinterested choice, by the basest corruption and bribery. But those governors once selected, where is the boasted freedom of the people? They must submit to their rule and control, with the same abandonment of their natural liberty, the freedom of their will, and the command of their actions, as if they were under the rule of a monarch."

    Our Founding Fathers foresaw this, hence, The Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Separation of Powers.

    So, why are these safeguards becoming increasingly ineffective? Because our nation's public education system has become criminally -- and from a national perspective, suicidally -- incompetent.

    For example, I recall a poll about a year ago that stated that 51% of recent high school grads didn't know if America and Germany were enemies or allies during WWII.

    Ask a graduate to name the three branches of government, and 9 times out of ten you'll get a blank stare.

    Purchase something for $11.29 and give the kid a five, a ten and 2 quarters.............without a cash register to tell them how to do it, see what happens.

    Ultimately whose fault is it? Yours, mine, everyone's. WE let this happen. WE lost America.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2010
  7. horseman09

    horseman09 Well-Known Member

    I just saw this on Fox: Report: Nearly 1 in 4 Students Fails Military Entrance Exam -

    The article states that nearly one fourth of American studends fail the military entrance exam. Real tough questions, though, such as, :"If 2 plus x equals 4, what is the value of x?"

    And the standards are so high: "Recruits must score at least a 31 out of 99on the first stage of the three-hour test to get into the Army."

    Surely it is a sign of massive decline that some poor little 12 year old in India who doesn't have a pot to pee in, gets one meal per day (maybe) and sits on a dirt floor listening to his teacher -- who herself was sitting on the same floor only a few years before -- can whoop most of our spoiled, ingratious high school grads' butts.

    I live in a small, very rural county. We spend almost $13,000 per student per year. Consider that many of the American people who put men on the moon went to primary school in a one room school house with a wood stove in the center with no free breakfast, a cold balogna sandwich for lunch and chores to do when they got home.

    You watch. What will the government continue to do to "fix" the problem? They will throw even more money at it, but they won't require realistic graduation standards, and they will continue to spend huge amounts on money on special ed and continue to give special ed kids free passes to a diploma.
  8. goshengirl

    goshengirl Supporting Member

    Yes, we do have a constitutional republic, but it would seem that the cycle is the same, isn't it?

    The danger amplifies as government expands and there are more and more people (voters) who receive 'benefits' and fewer and fewer people (voters) who pay the taxes to support those 'benefits.'

    As for education, as a homeschooler that's a subject near and dear to me. I could never teach in a classroom. So much curriculum is this dry, overly-processed, committee-written material that is more concerned with political correctness than real learning. Additionally, a teacher's day is so incredibly burdened with bureaucracy. They can't discipline anyone, not really, it goes against the district's cya policy.

    None of these problems have anything to do with money, but you're right - the first thing people want to do is throw more money at the school districts. These folks need basic lessons in the free market. Teachers need to be 'allowed to fail' - as in, they can be fired if they aren't any good. And in what industry would you ever spend a lot of money to fix a problem, and when the problem wasn't fixed, your immediate response is to spend even more money on it?

    It truly is scary, those reports on the military entrance exams. When will those in power of the education system really open their eyes? My concern is that those in power of the education system are more concerned with power than with education...
  9. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

    'throwing money' at the problem is the antithesis of effectiveness in solving it, statistically anyway...

    the school districts with the highest expenditures per student also have the highest dropout and illiteracy rates :nuts:

    Archived: National Library of Education - Frequently Asked Questions

    of course much of that could be going to administrative costs... :rolleyes:

    California School Spending Soared ... On Administrators

    as an example local high school has:
    2000+ students, district revenue of $7k/student & spends $6k per student, has 99%+ graduation rate, 70%+ college attendance, 17% (6+11) qualify for free/reduced lunch 1% receive free lunch, 8% receive reduced rate lunch, 1:28 teacher to student ratio, rated '5 star' by many dif standards/ranking systems (ok, that part is ambiguous at best)

    compared to large city 25 miles away that has expenditures greater than district revenue (that means Fed Gov $$$ and agendas pushed ;) ) much of which is administrative overhead :gaah: and only a slightly higher (21%) that qualify for free/reduced lunch, a lower teacher to student ratio (1:23)! and abysmal graduation/illiteracy rates...

    do I really need to point out the elephant in the room... taking a crap on the rug?