A question for active military.

Discussion in 'General Preparedness Discussion' started by Magus, Dec 14, 2008.

  1. Magus

    Magus Scavenger deluxe

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    Probably a stupid question,but here goes.

    I've been hearing in various places that US combat troops are being deployed on our streets in certain places.why?isn't this against Posse comitatus?

    I don't trust radioheads and bloggers,but its interesting enough to me to ask,I think I'd trust you guys a lot more than them,so what's up?

    If anything.:rolleyes:
     
  2. JeepHammer

    JeepHammer Well-Known Member

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    Haven't heard a peep about it from legitimate channels, and I spend 90% of my internet time conversing with current and former military types.
    Since I read your post, I googled it, and it just seems to be a figment of the paranoid far right imagination.

    No local national guard, reservists, active duty military or police in my area or the cities around us,
    (Indianapolis, Louisville, Evansville, St. Louis) know anything about it.

    I'm in pretty close contact with people stationed in places like Fort Campbell, Fort Bragg, Fort Knox, Fort Lenard Wood and I live and hang around with employees from Crane Navel Warfare Center just up the road....

    Sounds like one of those 'Obama' rumors again!

    Remember all the idiots that were forecasting riots, roving bands of rape/murder squads if he got elected?
    Not even a broken window!....

    Same people that brought you Y2K scare, Bird Flu scare, ect.
    They don't have a very good tract record, so I tend to discredit ANYTHING that comes from them since they are ALWAYS WRONG!

    If you want to know EXACTLY what IS NOT going to happen,
    Listen to Pill O'donky and Lush Dimbulb, they are wrong 100% of the time!
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2008

  3. Magus

    Magus Scavenger deluxe

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    I only listen to corporate radio when I'm bored and then just for a laugh.

    I thought I smelled BS,but it came from a sort of reputable source that had internet links to the story.guess even reputable sources can get taken every so often.good to know!
     
  4. backlash

    backlash Well-Known Member

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  5. Magus

    Magus Scavenger deluxe

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    So it IS real......now that's disturbing!know how many parts of the constitution this violates?

    Err....and if its real,why are the National guard still in Iraq?isn't this kind of thing THIER department?
     
  6. saintsfanbrian

    saintsfanbrian Liberty or Death!!!!

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    Having forces ready to help out in a time of need can be a good thing. Having forces ready to take up arms against citizens with out a lawful order is a bad thing. Keeping the peace after a natural disaster is something that the National Gaurd has always been used for however the State Gaurd would be a better option in my opinion.

    9/11 and Katrina both taught us that the government cannot be everywhere all the time (and they shouldn't be.)

    You have to be prepared for yourself.
     
  7. kassiekleer

    kassiekleer Guest

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  8. Magus

    Magus Scavenger deluxe

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    Well here's what's bugging me really.the National guard answer only to the Govonors of the states,and they're all stuck in Iraq,the Military only answers to the president,and should that president turn into a tyrant overnight,or just decide we don't need our guns anymore,it could be problematic!
     
  9. JeepHammer

    JeepHammer Well-Known Member

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    So, our returning troops from Afghanistan & Iraq that will be retrained and re-tasked with US Defense are to be considered 'Hostile' according to the 'Paranoid' press?

    In peace time, the job of EVERY SOLIDER OR SAILOR is to defend the US.
    Right now, we are MUCH lower in manpower in the US than we should be...

    Whiteness having to pull in national guard for 5 states just to police New Orleans after hurricane Katrina...
    The Lousiana National Guard should have been plenty enough to do that job, but they were deployed in the sand box somewhere,
    SO!
    The Guard was short handed and had to draw from other states...

    When our regular duty, Guard, and Reserves come home, they will be caught up on current training for natural disasters and terrorists attacks...

    Not only is it the natural thing to do, but it will help 'Unwind' the troops from being in the combat zones for so long.

    If you want to make something 'Sinister' out of it, then go ahead, but don't try to spread it like it's "facts" or anything.
    --------------------------------

    It violates NO national laws of any kind.
    Having troops train for national natural disasters and terrorists attacks is a good thing.
    Keeps the troops busy, gives them some 'Decompression' time from the combat zone, and gives them time to pass on valuable combat tactics information to the non-combat 'Recruits'.

    Remember, we are still dealing with Bush/Chaney/Rumsfeld doctrine here, this plan can go directly down the toilet with one stroke of the pin from the new president...

    Personally, I'd like to see our standing army right back here where it belongs when they are done with Afghanistan/Pakistan.
    I'd like to see our troops back from Iraq VERY shortly...

    We are currently lower on manpower in the US than ever before.
    We are sending every combat troop they can pry loose to the sand box, and our military bases look like closed up shopping centers!
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2008
  10. Magus

    Magus Scavenger deluxe

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    But why not bring back the National guard then?they don't even get paid like regulars.

    And it does violate Posse Comitatus.

    It smells to high heaven of something,what are they expecting?
     
  11. JeepHammer

    JeepHammer Well-Known Member

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    First off, we don't have enough troops period.
    IF the bring back reserves and guard members, they are SERIOUSLY SHORT HANDED in the sand box.

    When the wars are over enough we can bring home the troops, you REALLY Don't want them dropped in your lap without 'Decompression' time!

    Retrain is that 'Decompression' time.
    Adjust them to working with FELLOW AMERICANS, not bring them home and slap then in another stressful situation where they *MIGHT* treat Americans as combatants.
    (personally, our guys are better shots than I am, so I don't want them seeing me as an 'Adversary'!)

    The idea is,
    Right now, the continental US is WAY UNDERMANNED!
    We are 'Stop Gapping' or 'Stop Loss-ing' people that don't want to be in the military anymore, and can't recruit enough to bring the military up to the troop strength levels we need in wartime.

    The idea is to try and recruit enough so we will have full strength military, even though most of our soldiers are over seas in combat or support roles.

    It's easy to send them home if we don't need them,
    But if we wind up fighting a further extended war in Afghanistan, then we are going to need PLENTY more people to rotate in combat roles, and to keep our own shores safe...

    The easiest way to put it is,
    Do you want to have troops here, WHILE we fight them over there,
    OR,
    Do you want to be under staffed here while they fight over there?
    ----------------

    As for Posse Comitatus, there would be NO violation if the troops are used in support rolls.
    Cleaning up after disaster or attack, feeding/sheltering refugees, helping to find and correct 'Soft Targets' in the civilian population, ect.

    Posse Comitatus only covers LAW ENFORCEMENT/JUDICIAL proceedings.

    If the troops simply enforce curfew or looting laws, those are covered under it's charter when martial law is declared and the military is activated to help out.

    As long as they don't try and enforce local, state or federal laws, or sidestep the judicial system there isn't a problem.

    Besides, if martial law is declared, you are under military rules anyway, so arguing the point is splitting hairs.

    The military MAY NOT act as law enforcement.
    The military MAY NOT take any part in the resolution of any civilian legal dispute.

    The military could have ended the 'WACO' siege in a matter of minutes,
    But they were restricted by law and Posse Comitatus.

    In the event of a hurricane, like Katrina, the state was a federal disaster zone,
    BUT,
    The governor had to declare martial law to bring in the National Guard supported by the regular Army.

    And even though the Troops exchanged gunfire with some of the more stupid drug dealers, they had every right to do so, both under the rules of Martial Law, and as an INNATE RIGHT TO SELF PRESERVATION. Someone shoots at you, you have a SOVEREIGN RIGHT to shoot back to save your life or the lives of civilians/citizens that are threatened.
     
  12. Magus

    Magus Scavenger deluxe

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    Dunno how true it is,but I hear from the net that they're manning drunk check posts.
    That's law enforcement ain't it?
     
  13. BlueZ

    BlueZ Well-Known Member

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    never ever happens
     
  14. Turtle

    Turtle Well-Known Member

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    First off, that article is from 2008. Second, it is from The Washington Post, which for those unfamiliar with the rag, is the most far-left leaning paper in the land. Third, it specifically says that they are being trained to handle emergency response to terrorist attacks and natural disasters, with only 8% of the 20,000 troops detailed to providing security for the unit.

    Look at how the article describes the breakdown of the unit:

    " The team includes operations, aviation and medical task forces that are to be ready to deploy at home or overseas within 48 hours, with units specializing in chemical decontamination, bomb disposal, emergency care and logistics."

    Not exactly talking about a crack team of commandos to put down an insurrection.
     
  15. Turtle

    Turtle Well-Known Member

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    Well, it could be happening on military bases, where laws are enforced by the Provost Marshall's Office, which includes MPs.
     
  16. kejmack

    kejmack Texas!!!

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    BlueZ and Turtle, you are replying to posts that are four years old. The thread is from 2008.
     
  17. BlueZ

    BlueZ Well-Known Member

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    So what?
    This place isn't a library.
     
  18. oldvet

    oldvet Well-Known Member

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    I have a very strong feeling that the bulk of the Military would tell the so called Commander in Chief exactly where he could stick the orders to disarm the American people. Our troops are not a bunch of mindless robots that will never question unlawful orders, they IMO will not fire on Americans just because they are ordered to.

    Also IMO we are not the World's Police Force and again IMO we should pull out of the "sand box" all together and let them continue what they have been doing to each other for hundreds if not thousands of years. We are allowing our best, bravest, and brightest to be maimed and killed for absolutely no reason other than polital and monitary gain for Big Brother and Big Business.

    Yes the National Guard answers to the Governor of their State and IMO they have no buisness fighting in an un declaired war instead of being ready and able to assist the residents of their State during times of need.

    I also understand that because of the "draw down" of our Military, the Guard is filling the gaps due to the lack of active duty troops.

    I also call BS to the rumor about our Troops taking to the streets and "playing Police".
     
  19. Turtle

    Turtle Well-Known Member

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    Oh. Ha. Whoops.

    Then why in the hell did it pop up as a new thread? See? This is why I hate computers.
     
  20. Ezmerelda

    Ezmerelda Well-Known Member

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    And, as soon as one resorts to name-calling to back one's argument, I can't help but discount everything else one said.