8 dead among 52 shot across city over weekend

Discussion in 'International Current News & Events' started by horseman09, Jun 21, 2010.

  1. horseman09

    horseman09 Well-Known Member

    1,240
    4
    When I read the headline, I expected it to say "Baghdad". Wronggooo. CHICAGO. OBAMAO-LAND.

    But wait! They can't have shootings in Chicago because Chicago has the strictest gun control laws in America!
     
  2. gypsysue

    gypsysue The wanderer

    4,350
    22
    Probably would have been less shootings if more people were armed. Why don't they get that? Even I would feel bolder trying to stir up trouble against defenseless people, I'm just too nice to do that! THEY aren't. Duh, gun control advocates, get a clue!
     

  3. alanz

    alanz Active Member

    38
    0
    This is why it happened there. If I were a criminal with illegal guns, I would move wherever the strictest gun control laws are.
     
  4. kogneto

    kogneto The Skeptic

    280
    0
    lol obama is to blame for crime in chicago :scratch

    Also, how does more guns mean less shootings? More of the populace is armed so they can shoot shooters? Wouldn't it make more sense to discuss their policing not their gun laws?
     
  5. mosquitomountainman

    mosquitomountainman I invented the internet. :rofl:

    3,698
    70
    Would fewer guns mean less shootings? Policing isn't the problem. Most serious crimes are committed by career criminals. Lock them up and crime rates go down. The problem with liberal policies is that they believe "things" (guns, knives, explosives, etc.) "cause" crime. Doesn't work that way. People who break the law use "things" when committing crimes. Criminals will always have "things" available. Crime will continue as long as people break laws.

    When everyone has guns at least the playing field is level. When only criminals have the guns they have the advantage. Think about it. If you were a criminal what type of environment would you want to ply your trade in? One where equal resistance was unlikely and where, if caught, no real penalties would be applied? Or would you seek out places where people with guns were ready to use them against you and if you were caught you'd spend a long time in prison.

    Liberals are easy on criminals and hard on private ownership of firearms. Liberals are a criminal's best friend.
     
  6. Aemilia

    Aemilia Zookeeper

    145
    0
    The police mop up AFTERWARDS. I have a large dog (to buy time) and an accessable pistol. Just to make sure its not me being mopped up. With 4 little kids in the house, I'm not going to wait for protection. It will take the same amount of time to get the phone as it does to get the gun.
     
  7. horseman09

    horseman09 Well-Known Member

    1,240
    4
    Makes PERFECT sense to me. Logic is a wonderful thing. Lack of it is a very dangerous thing.
     
  8. mosquitomountainman

    mosquitomountainman I invented the internet. :rofl:

    3,698
    70
    Shooting back would beat the heck out of hiding under the table hoping the police got there in time.:D
     
  9. kogneto

    kogneto The Skeptic

    280
    0
    yeah, very logical to think that people should shoot people they think are criminals instead of reporting them to authorities

    and mosquitomountainman I think we're still discussing policing not gun laws

    what "no penalties" are you discussing, and again equal resistance shouldn't come from the general populace, it should come from a legitimate authority

    do you really feel safer knowing the general populace (also known around these parts as sheeple, the slumbering masses, those-to-avoid-in-emergency-situations) is supposed to protect you?

    I understand "look out for yourself" but if I have to worry that my truck backfiring will draw fire I'm not going to feel safer
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  10. gypsysue

    gypsysue The wanderer

    4,350
    22
    Let's hope that intelligent people with guns won't just start shooting because they hear your truck backfire! Yikes! Here in Montana people are more educated about guns. Nearly everyone has them, and a lot of people carry them, even in town.

    But guess what? We don't shoot at each other here! When it does happen it's usually a drunk guy who shoots at his wife. Not good, no. My point being, in the gun-a-phobe places you have reason to feel that way, with gangs, drugs, etc. and all the related crime, along with a populace that has no weapons training or experience. Plus whatever other reasons urban people shoot people.

    Their choice to live there. Our neighbors behind us moved here from L.A. Smart move. They were terrified of guns when they got here. Now you'd never know they weren't born and raised here.
     
  11. mosquitomountainman

    mosquitomountainman I invented the internet. :rofl:

    3,698
    70
    Got a cool backfire story! I'd just moved to Kalispell (many years ago) and had put a new set of JC Whitney lifetime warranty spark plugs in my pickup. Anyway, I was waiting at the traffic light and a cop pulled up about three cars behind in the other lane. I'm waiting and the truck is idling and it let out a loud backfire. We were downtown with three/four story buildings all around and the sound reverberated up and down the street so you couldn't tell where it came from. Everyone is looking all around trying to see where the "shot" came from (including the cop). I was making sure I looked around too so I didn't draw attention to myself. The light changed and I carefully drove on down the road. The cop turned the corner. I bought a new set of spark plugs that afternoon and put them in that evening.

    Anyway, on to your response. If someone is shooting at me I will happily shoot back. No need to wait for the cops to do it. Why should they have all the fun?

    We live in an area where almost everyone owns guns (and many carry them). I've never felt safer in my life. Crooks know it too and our crime rate is very low. Our daytime burglury rate is extremely low. Crooks just don't want to take a chance on getting thier backsides shot full of holes by an irate ... and armed ... homeowner. Heck, when I go to church on Sunday I know at least two of those very feminine ladies sitting in the pews have guns in their purses. My wife packs a 357 mag. most of the time when she's away from the house (and her rolling pin).

    It's been my experience that people who don't know anything about guns are afraid of them and wouldn't carry one if their life depended upon it.

    As far as "equal authority" goes ... I had a cop friend once who chased down a mugger. The cop was in civilian clothes and didn't identify himself immediately (things were happening rather fast at the time). When he pulled his gun the crook dropped to the ground and began begging for his life. When the cop pulled the cuffs the crook said, "@#$%#%, @#$#$7, man. If I'da known ya was a cop Ida kept runnin." Crooks know the cops won't shoot them unless provoked. But they're sometimes scared excrementless by a citizen with a gun.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  12. nj_m715

    nj_m715 www.veggear.blogspot.com

    720
    0
    Also, how does more guns mean less shootings?

    Ok, lets take away the guns and just use crime in general. If you were looking for someone to mug would you mug an old lady in a wheel chair or Mike Tyson? Would you go to retirement home or Gold's Gym?

    Now put the guns back in and think about where you will go to hold up someone. Will it be Texas where many people have hand guns or a place where no one has hand guns?

    I would prefer to live where trained responsible citizens can carry a weapon. If something bad was happening to your family in a dark alley the chances of a police officer walking around the corner are slim to none, but the chances of an armed citizen showing up in that dark alley are much higher IF we were allowed to carry.

    I just don't understand why people don't "get it". It's like reducing car crashes by taking away all of the cars. It's just silly.
     
  13. horseman09

    horseman09 Well-Known Member

    1,240
    4
    Look.....This is a no brainer. I'll try to explain it reeeeaaaaal slow for you. If the good guys have no guns and the bad guys have guns, the good guys are gonna die. DUH.

    If your logic is in absentia, and your common sense went the way of the dinosaur, then look up the FBI Uniform Crime Reports and correlate those statistics with guns laws. What will you find? You will discover that those cities with the highest levels of violent crime are the same cities with strict gun control laws.

    This really isn't rocket science. Ugggg. Bad guys have guns because they are BAD guys -- they violate the law. Good guys have no guns because they are good guys -- they obey the law. Sooooooooooo: armed bad guys shoot unarmed good guys. Should I repeat this, or do you think you have it now?

    Would I make a great Kindergarten teacher or what?

    WHEN SECONDS COUNT, THE COPS ARE ONLY MINUTES AWAY.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010
  14. Aemilia

    Aemilia Zookeeper

    145
    0
    I'm sorry, if you come THROUGH my dead-bolted door at NIGHT DESPITE hearing my big dog barking you are a criminal or a maniac and you will be *&@!#%& SHOT. And then I will report to the authorities. My table isn't big enough to hide under. :D
     
  15. gypsysue

    gypsysue The wanderer

    4,350
    22
    Amen, Aemilia, atta girl! :beercheer::congrat:
     
  16. mosquitomountainman

    mosquitomountainman I invented the internet. :rofl:

    3,698
    70
    You have to wonder what the "legitimate authority" was doing while all these people were being shot. How many do you suppose died or took a bullet while waiting for the "authorities" to come save them?
     
  17. kogneto

    kogneto The Skeptic

    280
    0
    lol I love how upset you all get over esoteric discussions about gun laws, but please let's continue :D

    gypsysue, "a lot of people carry them, even in town." this explains a lot of it. I know most of you live on farms or cabins out in the woods, but a large portion of the population doesn't. They live in cities because of the convenience it affords for their chosen profession, their lack of means to afford acres of land in the woods, any other reason (I know, not safe to live in cities if shtf you don't need to tell me, but should we swear off cities altogether?)

    mosquitomountainman, better be careful. Again living in the suburbs means you will have less to worry about. The crime rate where I grew up was extremely low, but I didn't grow up on 4th avenue, I grew up 20 miles outside the city. (Also remind me to never fall asleep infront of your old ladies in church, don't want to get pistol whipped)

    nj_m715, well if there were no cars, then logically it would follow there could be no car crashes...can't say the same for cart and buggy crashes, but you get the idea. And no where in my post did I advocate the complete dissolution of gun ownership.

    "I would prefer to live where trained responsible citizens can carry a weapon"
    Well then don't move to DC, because everywhere else allows trained responsible citizens this opportunity. But if you're looking to live in a tightly regimented area where everyone is highly trained in gun use they call it the military...also why is your family in a dark alley? do you guys frequently take trips to dark alleys?

    horseman09, nothing bolsters an argument by using the word "duh" and adding extra letters to words. Seriously, this is some PhD. knowledge you're dropping on us for sure. Of course the logic is completely sound, and wouldn't be putting the cart before the horse...hell you're an equestrian fellow I'm sure you know how to hitch that right. (also good use of caps lock, it's like being in cruise control for cool)

    Aemilia, right, again, I'm not saying people shouldn't own guns. I'm saying having laws in place governing the purchase of weapons, can help make sure repeat violent criminals and maniacs can't walk into a walmart and buy an arsenal. If you're looking for new furniture though

    back to mosquitomountainman,
    I don't expect the police to be Robocop and neither should you. But I don't expect average Joe to be John Rambo either. If I'm in a situation where I can alert the authorities before someone is shot, you stand a much better chance of survival than looking to your left and right for the nearest open carry civilian. Police have the training, support, and means to deal with these situations over my heavyset neighbor who open carries because he can't conceal it between his man-boobs...or moobs for you trendy folks. But if I'm in a situation where someone has been shot, or is being shot at, you're right, the local police will not arrive in 2 seconds and apprehend the individual.


    ---
    In summation, while you all raise interesting points, you haven't convinced me that gun laws in heavily populated cities are a bad thing...if anything you've convinced me not to go to church, not to fight mike tyson (did I really need convincing?), not to take horseman's kindergarten class (too many crying kids and shouting teachers), and not to startle aemilia...ever!
     
  18. nj_m715

    nj_m715 www.veggear.blogspot.com

    720
    0
    How can you tell that someone is about to shoot at you? You must know something that 52 other people didn't know. Next time they should call the authorities before getting shot.

    While we are at it, we should outlaw martial arts classes, because it might allow someone defend themselves against an attack when they should just call 911.

    I don't have to go to DC, I can just stay here because the only one's who carry are cops or criminals.
     
  19. mosquitomountainman

    mosquitomountainman I invented the internet. :rofl:

    3,698
    70
    Imagine how careful the preacher is about subject material!:eek::ignore:
     
  20. gypsysue

    gypsysue The wanderer

    4,350
    22
    kogneto, repeat criminals, gangs, and others don't NEED to walk into a gun shop and fill out paperwork. A lot of them won't acquire their guns legally...DUH! It's mind boggling to me that anyone believes laws requiring paperwork or other restrictions will stop or even make a dent in crime with guns! We're way past that. There are SO MANY guns out there and will be forever! When the law abiding people are restricted or have their guns taken away...who the heck do you think will HAVE the guns!!!

    And in case you haven't looked at the map, we have towns in Montana...a few that even have more than 100,000 people in them! And open-carry of guns is LEGAL in addition to all those with concealed-carry permits, and surprise! Not much in the way of murders, muggings, or other crimes involving shootings!!! Any trip to any of these towns, and you'll see people, not just ranchers in town for the day, in restaurants, stores, wherever, with a gun in a holster.

    Makes me feel better that if some disturbed person starts shooting up McDonalds while I'm in there, at least half a dozen people will probably shoot back (and reduce the carnage of helpless people) or at least hold him at gunpoint until the "authorities" get there.

    I'm sure not advocating careless or wanton shooting.