72 Year Old Man Evicted From His Land For Living Off The Grid

Discussion in 'Politics' started by IrritatedWithUS, Feb 14, 2011.

  1. IrritatedWithUS

    IrritatedWithUS Well-Known Member

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    Madison Co. to evict man from camper

    This happened back in late December 2010. I'm just bringing it back up again because it needs to be learned from and spread around.

    This 72 year old man has 38 acres and lives off the grid with no electricity, no plumbing, or running water and the town of Alexandria, Indiana is taking his land. it is 'unsanitary and unsafe' conditions that 'no human can live safely' by according to the tyrannical officials.

    In this article the city got it's way and he is trying to sell the land:

    Man holds ground in eviction case » Local News » The Herald Bulletin

    So this is how it's going to be.
    Government coming in and taking
    away your land for living simply.
    Or how the city doesn't like the way you live.
     
  2. piglett

    piglett Well-Known Member

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    the *****ing neibors should be glad that he doesn't burn them all out

    G** D** people, leave the old guy alone, tend to your own !!!!!

    what has this country come to???

    is this the USSR ????


    piglett
     

  3. backlash

    backlash Well-Known Member

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    I emailed the reporter here is her reply.

    We haven't heard anything from him since the article but it's a good idea
    to check in on him. I'll get on that.

    I will post any other reply I get.
     
  4. SunflowerGirl

    SunflowerGirl Member

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    This is a tricky situation. Whenever you live in a town and in close proximity to others, you are somewhat at their whim and mercy for everything from lawncare to Christmas decorations.
     
  5. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

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    yeah, cuz people are generally selfish azzhats that can't mind their own fookin' business
     
  6. IrritatedWithUS

    IrritatedWithUS Well-Known Member

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    They can try to get on my property. I'd shoot them in the kneecaps before they got to my front door
     
  7. flaja

    flaja Member

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    Has it occurred to anyone that a 72 year old man may not be physically able to live safely with no running water? I am only 43, but I have arthritis so bad there is no way I could survive if I had to carry water in a bucket from God-only-knows how far away.

    Furthermore, the real issue here is whether or not anyone has a right to not obey the law.

    The man’s violations include keeping junk and debris on his property. This could very well lower the market value of his neighbors’ property if not lower their quality of life- who wants to live next to a dump? Thus this man is infringing on the rights of others.

    The man was also living in a recreational vehicle- which would be against the law in many places outside of a RV park.

    And the man has no septic system. So where is he dumping his raw sewage so that is is not posing a health hazard for himself or other people?
     
  8. backlash

    backlash Well-Known Member

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    It is HIS property.
    He has the right to live any way he wants to.
    Who gets to decide how he lives? You?
    He has been taking care of himself this long so he must be able.
    While you may be unable to care for yourself that has no bearing on him.
    Everyone needs to leave the guy alone and mind their own business.
     
  9. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

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    first, if you read the second more inclusive article (and attached 'related' articles), the "debris" in question is vehicle parts, tools, and construction supplies for a shed/horse shelter, stored INSIDE a shed, it is NOT strewn about as the first articles wording intentionally makes it appear.

    second, "living in a RV" is against the law for fiscally tyranical reasons in that an RV is NOT a 'structure' and cannot be taxed, also RVs do not appreciate as homes normally do so the rate could be appealed with the county every year an a reassessment ordered which would actually cost the county more than the taxes generated from the property.

    third, no septic, I'll admit that is disgusting, BUT... if he had the entire property fenced in, only had horses there & came to the property every day to feed them & maintain their health, he would not be in violation of health ordinances... guess what? 3 horses crap a LOT more than 1 person does.

    fourth, from the photos it appears he is in good health & the only thing affecting him is excess stress generated by people not leaving him the fook alone.
     
  10. The_Blob

    The_Blob performing monkey

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    what can be done to allow him to live in peace and also obey 'the law'?...

    1. file land as animal/bird sanctuary (How to Start an Animal Sanctuary | eHow.com)
    2. buy a construction permit ($20-$50) for 'animal shelter'
    3. rent/buy Porta-Potty & periodical 'maintenance service' contract
    4. tear down & rebuild animal (horse) shelter (How to Build Farm Animal Shelters | eHow.com)
    5. claim full occupancy
    6. redo steps 1 & 2 and then have 'construction delays'
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    http://boingboing.net/2009/03/03/design-for-ninesquar.html

    Minimum size for MH's is 400 square feet. HUD/FHA does not have specific size limitations for site built houses. Here is an excert from HUD Handbook 4000.2.


    The following is a general outline of the minimum property
    standards:

    A. Eligible Houses. Detached, semi-detached, row houses,
    multiplex and individual condominium dwellings are eligible. If
    it is not detached, the dwelling must be separated from an
    adjoining dwelling by a party or lot line wall extending the full
    height of the building. Each living unit must be individually
    accessible for use and maintenance without trespass on adjoining
    properties.

    B. Eligible Manufactured Homes. The following requirements
    apply to all manufactured homes:

    1. At least 400 square feet minimum floor area

    Yes, it is 'illegal' to live in a tiny house in much of the US. Does that surprise you?

    According to designer and tiny house advocate Jay Shafer, “minimum size standards have been found to be unconstitutional in several US courts.” These standards reside in model building codes, adopted and customized at the local level for the stated purpose of 'protecting public health, safety and general welfare'. The truth is that these standards (specific to the size of houses and the rooms within) were pushed through during the 1970s and 80s by the housing and banking industries in order to produce 'more profit per structure'. The result? Ugly McMansions, urban sprawl, construction waste, higher co2 emissions, and now, an unaffordable housing crisis.

    To make things worse, some neighborhood groups 'needlessly fearful for their property values and lifestyles' also prohibit small homes in their areas.

    However, there are ways to get around this.

    1.Move out of the city. Many rural areas are unregulated in this way.
    2.Negotiate. Talk with your local building officials or neighborhood associations. They might be convinced that a small house is non-threatening.
    3.Accessorize. Small dwellings are sometimes allowed to be built adjacent to a house, such as a “granny flat.”
    4.Don’t hook up. If a structure is not permanently attached and not hooked up to public utilities, it may not be considered relevant to housing codes.
    5.Apply pressure. Point out the immense housing problem and give an out for your local politicians to save the day.

    Of course I’m speaking in generalities here. You must check your local building codes as they vary greatly.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2011
  11. nkjones1

    nkjones1 Active Member

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    One answer to all of your questions and faulty logic...the US Constitution. Specifically the fourth amendment aka the fourth bill in the bill of rights. This handy piece of anti-oppressionary GOLD ensures that this man is protected in his person, house, or possessions against unlawful search and seizure. Basically put unless he is doing something criminal and a judge issues a warrant to seize his land it's absolutely no one's business where he or his horses poop on his property or how far he goes to get water. With nearly 40 acres of property he could have a full 2 acres where he hauls his and his horse's poo. That's really a lot of room. Most people in cities have half or quarter acre lots with the giant mcmansions on them. He could have 4 giant mcmansion sized lots dedicated to poo in the middle of his land and no one would be the wiser. More to the point it's none of your freakin business.

    Also, nobody has the right for their neighbors to not have stuff they don't like. Unless you belong to a homeowner's association of course, what a bunch of Nazi's they are! But who doesn't want to pay hundreds a month to get told what you can do on your own property?

    I hope we find out what happened with this case. I remember when this story came out originally and being really PO'd about it. I don't know about you but if I weren't able to make the utility payments or left the lawnmower out too long I wouldn't want my neighbors calling the cops and having me evicted. My wellbeing is nobody's business but my own, period.
     
  12. Kathryn

    Kathryn Active Member

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    I, personally, live on 80+ acres with no running water, no city provided electricity, no sewer system, and a lot of materials that others would consider junk. I haul water in from the closest town, 20 miles away, collect as much water from rain and snow as possible, and use all gray water for growing edibles. I have solar panels to provide electricity to run lights, a refrigerator, and a freezer, as well as other non essentials such as computer, radio, etc. As for human waste, it is composted similar to my normal compost, and is used in fertilizing the soil where I grow animal feed. As for the junk, I have a lot of materials, metal pipes, metal frames, tires, trailers (camper type), barbed wire, wood, and a lot of other things. Each type of material is piled in its own location, and has a graded road next to it. All the materials I have were free except the price for gas to go get it. The metal will be used to make things such as the root cellar, the tires are used for an earth rammed house, and a shooting range. The wood will be used and has already been used to build a barn and corral for the four goats, donkey, a coop for the six chickens and rooster, and four rabbit hutches. It may look like a junk yard to others, but it is my free store for building supplies, what I need to survive off the grid. I, also live in a camper trailer, which I built an addition on to have my wood burning stove in, as well as other things. It is not against the law to camp permanently on your own land, and does not require permits, but the minute you build a permanent structure then the city/county/state has a right to tell you what you can do on your own land. Thus, I will never build a permanent structure on my land, because then the gov't has no right to tell me what I can and can't do, thus I maintain my freedom.

    I could understand if he had a bunch of materials and looked like a junk yard in the city on a city lot, but having 30+ acres of land means that he was not in the city, and the way he keeps his land is his right.

    Would you like someone coming into your house and telling you that because you do not keep it as clean as they think it should be, they have the right to kick you out of your house?
     
  13. FreeNihilist

    FreeNihilist Well-Known Member

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    What constitution it has been broken starting shortly after it was written repeatedly until the modern era where it continues to be broken. It has also been amended (read:altered) dozens of times. Its quite meaningless and very little of it even holds up anymore. Numerous laws are in violation of the constitution, for example the most notorious being that there is no free speech. Freedom is an illusion granted until they decide to take it away.

    We live in a police state where the authority can do pretty much what it likes without recourse.

    Sad but true.

    It is quite unfortunate what has happened to this man but it is nothing new and it is all politics and about sanitizing the face of the city. This is no different than all the no loittering laws and various anti-homeless laws both directly and indirectly aimed at keeping non renting and non home owning individuals out of the cities and town. Problem is we're running out of spaces where cities and towns dont exist. These problems will only escalate as they have continously over the past few decades.
     
  14. nkjones1

    nkjones1 Active Member

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    re: freenihilist

    Sad but true indeed sir. My only hope is that the constitution may once again be recognized as a legally binding and secure protective document. I know how far we are on the road to tyranny and it scares the crap out of me. Doesn't make me any less pissed though when I hear about people's rights being trampled on by their "elected" officials. Because, if it can happen to one it can happen to all.

    Thanks for the input FreeNihlist, I enjoy reading your posts.
     
  15. ar15bob

    ar15bob ar15bob

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    what kind of crap is this this man has rightsthis is bulls###t. Dont come here and try to take my stuff you will not like what you get God Bless America The Rebublic Will Survive I hope
     
  16. homealone777

    homealone777 New Member

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    I t's none of you're buisness what he does. I have an old out house, old bus camper, all kinds of apparently; What you'd call junk! Funny thing is I have all kinds of extra outdated parts I don't have to pay for. I live in the country. I lived in a city for 1 and 1/2 years and thought I was going to pull my hair out over all the control!!! That was one of the stupidest moves I've ever made!!!I came back home. This is'nt America, ''Land of the free'', any more; I'ts, America,''Land of the controlling ELITE''. If China don't care that is. Yeah; I've still got that old out house that my dad built. Lord willing; I won't tear it down no matter what anybody say's PERIOD!!! I pay my taxes, and my bills and It's none of anybody's buisness what I do on my own property; Just like him!!! And, no; I don't use the outhouse anymore; I might fall in! It's just the principal of it!