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Old 11-20-2009, 07:26 PM   #1
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Default CO 2 scrubber

Is there anyone who could add to or make suggestions, much appreciated.



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Old 11-20-2009, 11:00 PM   #2
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I'm presently do some research into CO2 scubbers using Sofnolime(from underwater re breather systems) and pelletized carbon. These would be important in a sealed shelter situation. What I can gather that Air contains about .04% CO2 and the normal adult exhales about 5.7% CO2.
Would there be a natural CO2 scrubber that doesn't rely on products - and - would it be a viable option?

I am thinking back to my highschool days and what the teachers taught about plant-life - how it naturally converts CO2 into O2 when combined with natural light, moisture and soil.

I read a report one time about green-houses in Canada that pump massive amounts of CO2 into the shelters to make the plants grow faster, bigger and tastier.

Second, if you watched "Mission to Mars" (ya, I know its a sci-fi movie), they created an eco-system on "mars" where the plants in the down'd shuttle naturally scrubbed out the CO2 ... again, a bit of a sci-fi thing, but, could it work when given the right circumstances?


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Old 11-20-2009, 11:52 PM   #3
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You are right, part of the plan will use these 12 Volt DC Hydroponic 225 LED Grow light Panel Red Blue - eBay (item 220487356589 end time Oct-01-09 18:24:13 PDT) with plants to not only help with the CO2 problem, but with the psychological affect while in a confined space. Looking into the best plants for both, also might as well grow mushrooms, they are brimming with protein, B vitamins (riboflavin, niacin and pantothenic), and minerals (selenium, potassium,and copper). They're low in calories and may have antibacterial substances to help the body.

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Old 11-21-2009, 01:40 PM   #4
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You are right, part of the plan will use these 12 Volt DC Hydroponic 225 LED Grow light Panel Red Blue - eBay (item 220487356589 end time Oct-01-09 18:24:13 PDT) with plants to not only help with the CO2 problem, but with the psychological affect while in a confined space. Looking into the best plants for both, also might as well grow mushrooms, they are brimming with protein, B vitamins (riboflavin, niacin and pantothenic), and minerals (selenium, potassium,and copper). They're low in calories and may have antibacterial substances to help the body.
I would agree to an extent on mushroom growing - except that it takes a very special person to setup the right conditions to properly grow mushrooms in a "farming" type environment. You need moisture, but not too much, you need to be knee-deep in crap and you need a very dark environment. I have designed and built (at work) computer-controlled heating / cooling / humidifying / dehumidifying air-circulation units for mushroom farms. These units that I built were all aluminum and brass due to the requirements of cleaning out the spores that would be filtering through the system. The spores are not really good for you and they are also not good for the equipment needed to keep the environment at peak production levels.

What I would suggest is to build a "bomb-shelter-grade" above-ground green-house with a stairway to the "underground" shelter. The above-ground greenhouse could be built with a concrete-floor and half-walls to an I-beam frame. I would then line the inside and outside of the I-beam with 1/4" (minimum) to 3/8" thick clear lexan (giving up to 3/4" thick protection from projectiles. Run a bead of lexan-sealant between the I-beam and each layer of lexan and you will have your seal against any air-borne problems.

For the door to the outside-world - consider an air-lock based system - two layers of protection.
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Old 11-21-2009, 02:13 PM   #5
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The mushroom kits are pretty simple actually Mushroom Kits : Mushroom Adventures, Portabella, Oyster and White Button Mushroom Kits now, some are nothing but compressed growing cubes that you just soak and set in a dark place, note, that button type mushrooms are one of the only ones that grow in complete darkness. The grow lights will enable me to not only provide lights for plants, but also for sprouting.
When you mentioned the air lock system, were you talking about the door from the greenhouse plan? You've seen the door plan I have for the shelter, the top ring and the large bunker door inside, these will create a 'lock' system that will also have a disinfectant water spray and a deterrent spray which will be controlled from inside the shelter, and a in ground sump pump to evacuate the liquid outside. My last shelter was designed this way, you could even send pepper spray smoke in there to repel intruders.

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Old 11-21-2009, 02:48 PM   #6
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When you mentioned the air lock system, were you talking about the door from the greenhouse plan? You've seen the door plan I have for the shelter, the top ring and the large bunker door inside, these will create a 'lock' system that will also have a disinfectant water spray and a deterrent spray which will be controlled from inside the shelter, and a in ground sump pump to evacuate the liquid outside. My last shelter was designed this way, you could even send pepper spray smoke in there to repel intruders.
I guess that I didn't really describe my thought-process properly.

Right now, from my understanding of your setup, you have access to the house-proper through a blast-door to a sealed bunker underground. One way in - one way out through the house proper. If something was to happen to the house would you be trapped inside the bunker underground?

Now, just imagine putting a second entrance from the bunker to the outside world. What would be a good way to protect that second entrance from unwanted visitors finding it? Well, you could try to hide it under a fake-rock, or in some bushes, or put a shed over top - or ...

Now imagine that the second entrance was to the inside of a "blast-proof" greenhouse where food can be grown and you would have true sunlight and the ability to "scrub" the CO2 from the air .. and then have an "air-lock" between the green-house and the outside world which could give you another out from the bunker. By making the greenhouse "bomb-proof" by using concrete and I-beam and covering with "bullet-proof" lexan (google search-term: speedglass) to allow the light in but nothing else - you have created more functionality and safety in one shot.

I really hope that I have my thoughts spelled out a bit better for you. It is something that I have thought about for a while for my own shelter. I am using the idea from a little critter that lives here on the prairies - a gopher. They build their burrows with several exits and several tunnels which in turn gives them a better chance at getting away from predators. Some of their exits are in the bush, some in rocks and some are open so that they can mad-dash when a fox is after them...
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Old 11-21-2009, 07:59 PM   #7
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There are lots of great mushrooms that grow on sawdust substrate so that would help with not having to deal with growing on compost but mushrooms expire CO2 when they grow so I think that might counter act your plants. I have done a lot of reading on the LED grow light panels and they get a lot of mixed reviews. So I love the idea of low wattage but am not sure how well they really grow. I have always thought that running sun tunnels into an underground shelter would be a great way to grow plant underground but am also not sure about how much light they put down range. For high intensity growing you can't beat HID lighting but they are energy hogs.


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Old 11-21-2009, 10:53 PM   #8
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There are lots of great mushrooms that grow on sawdust substrate so that would help with not having to deal with growing on compost but mushrooms expire CO2 when they grow so I think that might counter act your plants. I have done a lot of reading on the LED grow light panels and they get a lot of mixed reviews. So I love the idea of low wattage but am not sure how well they really grow. I have always thought that running sun tunnels into an underground shelter would be a great way to grow plant underground but am also not sure about how much light they put down range. For high intensity growing you can't beat HID lighting but they are energy hogs.
I had to look up a sun-tunnel to see if I was thinking it was the same thing. From the pictures that I saw, it might not have sufficient protection from the elements that Bob is trying to get away from.



This one that I found looks like a nice design to bring light into a house (sky-light idea) but with the thin acrylic dome, it probably wouldn't protect against environmental disasters the way that a couple feet of dirt above a 1/2 a foot of concrete would protect. I could be wrong in this - if anyone has researched into acrylic and fall-out, fire, wind-storms (and the related debris) - please let me know if it will protect the occupants.
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Old 11-21-2009, 11:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
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I had to look up a sun-tunnel to see if I was thinking it was the same thing. From the pictures that I saw, it might not have sufficient protection from the elements that Bob is trying to get away from.



This one that I found looks like a nice design to bring light into a house (sky-light idea) but with the thin acrylic dome, it probably wouldn't protect against environmental disasters the way that a couple feet of dirt above a 1/2 a foot of concrete would protect. I could be wrong in this - if anyone has researched into acrylic and fall-out, fire, wind-storms (and the related debris) - please let me know if it will protect the occupants.
I installed two of these in my new house, one in a interior hallway and the other in the master bath. They are not very sturdy on the inside, just a thin walled tube highly polished inside leading down to the ceiling with a diffuser lens. The dome on the roof is some type of clear acrylic with a directional small diffuser. You're right not very strong, low profile ok with high wind, and hail, good idea anyway.
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Old 11-22-2009, 05:40 AM   #10
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I can see how they wouldn't be very strong in a shelter situation. How about the idea of using fiber optics to move sunlight into the shelter? I found this link which seems interesting.

Fiber Optics to Bring Sunlight into Buildings

I have no experience with fiber optics so I don't know how efficiently they would move the sunlight or at what cost but it sounds interesting.




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