[JoKing]

Originally Posted by Asatrur

So according to Hawaii, it is illegal to hoard food based on this, but the penalty for doing this might be destruction of said food. Makes no sense to me.
"(1) Prevention of *hoarding, waste, etc. To the extent necessary to prevent hoarding, waste, or destruction of materials, supplies, commodities, accommodations, facilities, and services, to effectuate equitable distribution thereof, or to establish priorities therein as the public welfare may require, to investigate, and any other law to the contrary notwithstanding, to regulate or prohibit, by means of licensing, rationing, or otherwise, the storage, transportation, use, possession, maintenance, furnishing, sale, or distribution thereof, and any business or any transaction related thereto."

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0128/HRS_0128-.htm
Whoever came up with this conspiracy theory is full of sh**! When you knock article 128 down to size, it says that during civil unrest, the government will protect the resources from hoarders and vandals and ensure they get distributed where needed. That WHOLE paragraph is only one(1) sentence long(no sh**). And the forfeiture and destruction? That's referring to how they will deal with quarentines and civil nuisances during
Martial law. It has nothing to do with hoarding.

Someone is trying to paint a picture of the Feds kicking in your door, and they may, but it won't be because of Article 128. I've got enough to worry about with the little green men.

"Hoarding is a general term for a behavior that leads people or animals to accumulate food or other items during periods of scarcity...Civil unrest or natural disaster may lead people to hoard foodstuffs, water, gasoline, and other essentials which they believe, rightly or wrongly, will soon be in short supply."
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoarding#section_2

[cabinetman]

The 'Feds' would not be my first concern. As mentioned numerous times, keeping what you have collected private is important. No need for your neighbors to be lining up and asking.......demanding to be fed. The next big concern is your community. If they have a disaster relief plan in effect, and they know that neighbor x, y, and z have so much fuel and so much food, there's a chance that they would expropriate it from you to 'share' with the community. After all, the 'needs of the many trump the needs of the few". Right? Your gas could be used by town emergency vehicles. Your food can make what meager supplies the town has go further.

In the fictional book "Lights Out", that is a big concern for this one family who has put food up for long term storage. The community begins to wither on the vine because no supplies are forthcoming ever again and the officers of the town decide that they have to pool their resources. It will get extremely bad in a hurry when nothing is on the store shelves. The tip off is that you and your family aren't at the center of town begging for your ration today. Why? Because you've got yours at home. The bulk of the town does not. It's noticed that you and yours are conspicuously absent and your supply is discovered. The town says it has to feed everyone equally. You suggest that they go pound sand. It is a scenario that will occur should a true catastrophic event affect the food supply.

"Lights Out" paints what I feel is the most authentic display of human nature in a bad situation. Early on (a couple of weeks) things are managable. Once a month hits, however, all bets are off and people will steal and kill for food even if you are between them and it.

Rome

[JoKing]

Originally Posted by cabinetman

The 'Feds' would not be my first concern.

While I strongly agree, your post would better quench the thirst of the "Fiction Stories" thread.

As mentioned numerous times, keeping what you have collected private is important.

Or start a new thread about "Transparent Prepping Controversies"by Falsebottomcabinetman.
As far as my research is concerned, it is not illegal to stockpile food in the United States. When the balloon goes up, according to the law, residential food redistribution is not up for debate. If anyone finds a law that is contrary to my statement, make it public with links to the legislation so it can be flushed out. My belief is, that if there is a law out there, it's so secret squirrel that you ain't gonna find it without a wiki leak.

[Solonot1]

I'm stationed in Hawaii, and live on base. Even if this legislation is not intended as presented here, we have demonstrated how it can be interpreted, manipulated, and adjusted to fit that intent. All it would take its a crisis and done. This island is overpopulated, they bring in over 80% of their food, and are thousands of miles from the nearest continent.

If any large scale disaster happens, we will be on our own for a while if transportation goes down. That's why I'm stocking up on food and water. I know the base will provide as best they can, but better safe than sorry.

[VUnder]

Speeding is illegal, but I do it on occasion. In fact, may have done it yesterday, may not have.

[HoppeEL4]

I cannot say what the future holds, for any of us, when it comes to when and how things could go terribly wrong in our communities or nation. However, I know I plan to keep what I am doing secret. I have only four neighbors, all older, and all good people. If they were in need I would be darn sure to help them, the older couple next to us, have lived here since 1958, and the other, not as long but he is battling cancer, would not let him go without either.

However, even if no one could legally come after all I have stored up, does not mean if they knew about it the law would stop them from doing so in a time when things got bad. Anything someone in government wants to do can be justified and done if they see fit. I am keeping my stores quiet.

[pixieduster]

I only have 7 days worth of food, for 75 people.

Ha! Love it. I'm using that one. I may borrow the neighboring children and say they are all mine too. We will dress shabby and play in the mud. No shoes of course.

[horseman09]

IMHO, relating current law with what will apply when TSHTF is moot.

In 1941, within 10 days of the Japanese strike at Pearl Harbor, Congress gave FDR virtually unlimited powers. Right or wrong? You decide.

His administration confiscated homes -- even whole towns (one example I know of is not far from Williamsport, PA), he had warrantless arrest powers with detention until the end of hostilities, he controlled virtually every business and industry in the country. He ordered nearly every company from GM to Electrolux to cease peacetime domestic production and convert to producing wartime materiel. He did not ask. He was given the power to order these changes.

Nearly every staple was rationed and hoarding was illegal and violators were prosecuted. That included meat, cheese, butter, sugar, coffee and more. People caught indulging in the black market were prosecuted and often jailed.
A few of these powers were actually granted to FDR before Pearl Harbor as the govt saw war looming.

Civil liberties were pretty much extinguished until after the war.

So. Regardless of what any anti-hoarding laws say today, tomorrow could be a whole new ball game. The critical difference as I see it though, is ObaMao is not FDR, and today's fed is nowhere near what it was back then.

[BillS]

Originally Posted by PrepN4Good

The Feds may or may not take your food; with the way things are "progressing" (yes, intentional pun), it really wouldn't suprize me, unfortunately.

However, I think the more likely scenario is a "food raid" by local/state govt when TSHTF. (And don't assume the friendly local Sheriff will still be in charge when that happens. We just don't know.) The "locals" are more likely to notice you're not as skinny as the rest of the neighborhood, or recall you used to come home with 50lb bags of rice in the back of your pick-up, or are strangely absent from the line at the emergency soup kitchen.

I doubt that there will be any emergency soup kitchens after it hits the fan. But if there are it would make sense to go there and eat with everyone else.

[cqp33]

OK just read the book, "one second after" and what an eye opening book with several scenarios that could play out! One in there was the local government being cut off from communications from "big government". The setting is in a small North Carolina mountain town. It starts with 3 nukes detonated in the upper atmosphere to create a EMP (already been proven this would completely shut down the entire country for months). After martial law is declared and word is received to the local government, the sheriff becomes the local "martial". He talks about going into the "local preppers" house to seize their provisions but decides that the fight would not be worth it in the end, they just would not allow them to "ration" from what they have on hand. Also talks about disease, medication, the druggies running out and now strung out, even talks about squirrel being traded for 5 then later 7 .22 shells and the character in the book talks about the price of squirrel going up by how many .22 bullets it cost for one now! A good read for any of us to think about those "not normally thought of" things, in the end it will help be more prepared.

This book has also been sited on the floor of congress, there are some people within the government that are scared to death of such an event! Here is a copy of what is posted as part of the description of the book.

"Months before publication, One Second After has already been cited on the floor of Congress as a book all Americans should read, a book already being discussed in the corridors of the Pentagon as a truly realistic look at a weapon and its awesome power to destroy the entire United States, literally within one second. It is a weapon that the Wall Street Journal warns could shatter America. In the tradition of On the Beach, Fail Safe and Testament, this book, set in a typical American town, is a dire warning of what might be our future...and our end."

While I am not sure (and nobody can be) how such event would play out with martial law, think about OPSEC as many before have mentioned! I am active duty military so OPSEC is second nature to me, am I prepared yes, how much I will never tell. I will not be the one that has people lining up at the door for, I don't have many friends anyways and I for sure don't want the "all of sudden I am your friend" types!

Something just came to as well! There are many on here with no past military experience and may not know what we mean we say "OPSEC"! It stand for Operational Security, meaning that we don't talk about troop, ship or asset movements or deployments, in order for our operations to sustain security, therefore we gave birth to "OPSEC"! The government and the military loves acronyms!