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Old 01-11-2012, 06:40 PM   #21
gypsysue
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Naekid, why must the electronics be removed from the microwave? I would have assumed that the same protection that keeps us safe from radation from inside the microwave would also protect the electronics? And that the same barrier would work the other way? : What would happen if you left them in? I was thinking of the operable microwave in my kitchen, which we mostly use as a breadbox these days, but still... If we only had a short warning, I'd thought of shoving my netbook computer, digital camera, and other small electronics like the cell phone (yeah...probably won't ever be usable again anyway!) into the microwave. It's a small microwave, so wouldn't hold a regular laptop. So, I can't just unplug the cord and stuff things inside it?



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Old 01-11-2012, 07:07 PM   #22
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I can't help my mind repeatedly going back to the Japan tsunami, whereby power was knocked out to the nuclear plants, and without much recourse available to prevent a meltdown. THEIR pumps were underwater, but....
In a true solar event, or any long term grid outage, how will our nuclear sites avoid it as well? Diesel for emergency pumps will eventually run out, & without infrastructure in place to fuel them...? Even then, these control systems within the plants are high-technology; I'd like to think they're hardened, but I know we're waaay behind on that front.
I know of three nuclear sites within 150 miles west of me, and of course, the prevailing winds are always from that direction. You may do well to google these sites yourself, to analyze YOUR risk.
So please- reply with 10 good reasons why the above scenario CANNOT happen, & I promise I'll send you a brand new 40 S&W in the mail. (with tongue firmly in cheek)



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Old 01-11-2012, 07:21 PM   #23
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GS - from what I have read about it, you need to find a way to break the connection from the "outside" world and the inside of the microwave. By gutting the microwave of all external powercords, circuit-boards, timers, transformers, etc you are creating a clean break and making the inside of the microwave into a true faraday cage.

As far as having some kind of warning, I expect that there will be no warning, or, if there is, it will already be too late. If you can keep your electronics protected at all times, you will have them available to you after a CME (or similar electron-blast) - what good they will be afterwards remains to be seen



My best suggestion for you is to wander 'round electronic drop-off-zones where people leave things behind for others to take-n-use for free, find some of the oldest microwaves and turn them into your faraday cages.

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Old 01-11-2012, 09:09 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawpaw View Post
I can't help my mind repeatedly going back to the Japan tsunami, whereby power was knocked out to the nuclear plants, and without much recourse available to prevent a meltdown. THEIR pumps were underwater, but....
In a true solar event, or any long term grid outage, how will our nuclear sites avoid it as well? Diesel for emergency pumps will eventually run out, & without infrastructure in place to fuel them...? Even then, these control systems within the plants are high-technology; I'd like to think they're hardened, but I know we're waaay behind on that front.
I know of three nuclear sites within 150 miles west of me, and of course, the prevailing winds are always from that direction. You may do well to google these sites yourself, to analyze YOUR risk.
So please- reply with 10 good reasons why the above scenario CANNOT happen, & I promise I'll send you a brand new 40 S&W in the mail. (with tongue firmly in cheek)
I worked in the Fort Cahoun Nuclear power plant in Fort Cahoun Nebraska. I can tell you how this reactor functioned and how the system worked, but I would be unfamilar with the ones near you.

The basic controls for operation of the reactor are controled by computer, but switches can be manually turned and valves can be manually opened or closed. So I don't see any concerns about saftey.

The control rods are electrically held up and if there is a power failure the control rods desend into the reactor by gravity. When the control rods are down the reactor is shut down and just needs to be cooled for an extended period.

Cooling is done with the use of 2 2000HP (only 1 pump is required) electric motors about the size of a Chevy Blazer. To power the pumps, line power is used. If line power as failed then there are 2 locomotive size generators (only 1 is required) to supply the pumps with power. If both generators fail then there is a battery room to supply power for 24 hours. If all these fail then there is emergency water injection that is compressed air over water and does not require electrical power. If all this fails then put your head between your knees and kiss your ass good bye.

All of the systems above are behind a minimum of 3 feet of reinforced concrete walls and ceiling and would be unaffected by a solar blast. The reactor is in a containment dome of 6 feet thick reinforced concrete. All the walls are concidered missle proof.

Now after I said all that, all reactors are ran by humans and humans make mistakes.

Feel any safer?
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:56 PM   #25
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Before I run out and purchase one of those old microwaves that are large and gut it, is this backed up by facts. By what I understand of electornics it sounds really reasonable. Also what is the idea about using a metal can or grabage can lined with card board as a protection for electronics? Also does the metal can have to be grounded really well or just have a metal ground?
Thanks for any inforamtion you can give. I would imagine there might be many out there, like me, that understand some of this, but need more guidence in doing what is said by you and others that really understand what they are saying, much more than I.
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Old 01-12-2012, 06:43 PM   #26
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Popcorn,

Anything that can insulate the electronics from a power-surge (EMP, CME, etc) will work. I read reports where scientists have tested all kinds of materials / products with a localized EMP generator and a mesh screen around a cardboard box worked well, an all-metal garbage can worked well, anti-static-bags for computer components worked well, even metal filing cabinets worked well, as long as there was a level of insulation between the outside of the box and the electronics inside the box. The insulation inside the cage can be air (bubble-wrap), cardboard, foam, plastics. In the case of the gutted microwave, the electronics removed help keep out the EMP / CME waves before the waves get to the actual faraday-cage portion of the microwave (the actual oven).

If you wanted to use Google to search out EMP, HEMP, faraday-box, faraday-cage (etc) you will find lots of research papers from military, government, universities and other scientists that are published.

I am not an expert in EMP, but, I have read enough reports that I think that I am fairly knowledgable in protecting electronics.

Some videos to get you started (some shared by other members of the board)



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Old 01-12-2012, 11:23 PM   #27
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Great reply. That helps eliminate the questions in my mind that crept up with small gaps in inforamtion I have heard and been reading.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:34 PM   #28
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Default Solar Storm -- WOW possibly another problem?????

Greater responces the the thread and many thanks to all that participated, and PLEASE CONTINUE to respond. The information is wonderful, and much needed since the higharchy decided not to notice until lately.
NOW ---- Next wrench in the works for a Solar Storm, Gamma Burst, CME, or whatever is the following:
I just read that there is also an INTERSTELLAR ENERGY CLOUD, that our systems will be passing through that could go on for the next 2,000 - 3,000 years. What I have read is that this type of cloud excites the Sun and planet atmospheres.
Question:
Is this just another pile on to what could happen?
Is this a magnified danger to what possibly could happen?
What kind of effect will this have on the earth if any?
Naturally I am reading information so I can understand what is going on, but I can not read everything.
Thanks,
Popcorn590


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Old 01-13-2012, 01:09 AM   #29
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I have come up with this genairic description of how a EMP type blast causes damage to electronic/ electric devices. Think of an EMP as a ball shaped lightning blast, that provides a charge while it expands kind of like layers of an onion, this charge builds up in wires and other conductors as the "ball" size increases so does the ammount of charge tranfered,thus overloading circuits. A blast from a CME would just be a much bigger ball.


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Old 01-13-2012, 05:05 AM   #30
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Before I retired from the USAF in Oct 1983 I was also a CBR Shelter Manager. You got it right in a nice simple terms. It does not take much to destroy all electronics of today. My concern is if you do not have to reduce yourself to almost stone age living, why should you? I am trying to make it as easy upon ourselves as possible, if a CME/EMP/Gamma Burst happens. It is basically back to basics. We keep extra gas on hand with sti-bill put in it every six months, then use it in the car after a year and re-fill it. If we get a CME that is like th Carrington Event of 1859 all transporation of gerneral necesseties are done. What gas and protected electronics and generators you have will be it. I am trying to save up for the Solar Generator that Solutions from Science has. The 1800 watt would be good enough. If some do not know it is a plug and play generator. It also has a plug in for a wind turbine, if you want more than the solar pannels that come with it. If I got it would be for a major emergency, and I would insure it was protected behind stone type walls and any electronics would be protected. We essentially have everything we need or it is available. That one item is the last thing on the wish list. We have all the hand tools, garden tools, etc. I even went out and bought really cheap well built old hand turn drill from the 40's. We get what we think will be usefull even if we do not ever get a CME. As it stands we are having rolling brown and black outs in some parts of the country that are not reported by the press. There are small towns that turn off street lights at night to save money. Our grid is old and needs replacing. We may be back at the older ages without a CME.
Later,
Popcorn590




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